Talk with family

EmptyInside

Well, my experience isn't anything extraordinary or anything, just interesting. Yesterday, I spent the evening with my brother and his family. My brother is an elder and my nephew is grown and is a MS and pioneer. Anyway, we all agreed that the new song book is horrible. My brother and his wife said most of the congregation openly admits they do not like the new song book and all. He said maybe the Governing Body will admit they made a mistake and come out with a new one with the old songs back. Yeah, right.

Then we got on to the new generation teaching. And my mother mentioned she just doesn't understand it. Which if she is honest, it just doesn't make much sense. Then my nephew, had a friendly argument with a brother about who would be resurrected, such as, Sodom and Gomorrah. My nephew said they would be, his friend said no. I said you're both right, because it changes all the time. lol. Well, he found an article from 2005 that sort of said they wouldn't. ? Then, I brought out how the whole account of Lot and his daughters is quite disturbing, because homosexuals are a big no-no, but incest okay. It got quiet on that remark. I think the wheels were turning there.

We talked about changes back and forth with certain doctrines. And my mother's nervous laughter, this doesn't sound too good.

I think the subject was again changed to lighter things. But,I think my brother's family will stay hardcore for now. And my mother has admitted in the past she was stumbled by some "new" light. Example, 1964, about, that anyone who died during the last days would not be resurrected. That bothered her. But, they changed it to pretty much anyone has a chance for a resurrection. But, she said that the basics of the truth has not changed like the end of the system of things and paradise earth. Well, I just left it at that it effects our whole life so we have to be sure it is the truth.

So, I am gradually preparing her. I think she kind of knows how I feel deep down. But, I have to deal slowly with her. And she is in her late 70's, so I'm not going to burst her bubble too much.

Just one more note, I have another brother who has been inactive for years. Faded before I knew people did that on purpose. Well, he told my mother he doesn't believe in Jesus and is not sure God exists either. Well, she told him she'd love him no matter what he believed. Of course, she has accepted him being out for awhile now. But,again, I find it interesting that a lot of Witnesses have the same feelings, doubts on matters,even my own family. Just thought some would find it interesting.

jamiebowers

Oh, how I wish that I could have a conversation like that with my mom. But I was df'd, so it's not happening anytime soon. Try the fade as opposed to da'ing, so you can continue to keep your finger on your family's "spiritual" pulse.

MissingLink

It's good to hear your mom accepts your brother's atheism and won't shun him.

I don't know what you mean about "everyone has a chance for a resurrection". Has this changed recently? I haven't read any dub writing in about a year I think. But about 2 years ago a study watchtower clearly said that only baptized witnesses would make the cut. (This was the same time that the "public" watchtower said "Only the incorrigably wicked need to fear armageddon). I thought that the message to outsiders is that everyone has a shot, but the message to insiders is that if your kids aren't baptized, then they're bird food. Let us know if this has changed recently in the "members only" publications.

jwfacts

Your mother sounds very nice. At her age you probably do not want her to find out it is not truth, what is most important thing is that she continues to accept you.

EmptyInside

Hi Jamie, I have planned all along to fade. Of course, I couldn't prevent a disfellowshipping, if I was discovered.

And Missing Link, I don't fully understand your question, but it's understood that almost everyone who dies before the big A has a chance for a resurrection, whether they were a Witness or not. I'll find the article for you later. And it's interesting that a recent "Question from Readers" even suggested that it is possible for miscarriages to have a resurrection. Don't know how that would work. I'll look that up later for you. Of course, someone else my already have that article.

EmptyInside

Yes, jwfacts, my mother is quite liberal in some things, die hard in others. But, she's been through a lot in the organization. She saw how my brother was treated when he was a teenager by the elders. And I think she feels bad that she allowed it to happen.

Just one example: This happened in the late 70's I guess, my brother is about 16 years older than me. Anyway, a lot of young people in the hall went to a concert, Joe Cocker, I believe. Well, the next Sunday after the meeting, there was an announcement. They read off all the names of the teenagers that had been to this concert. That they were to meet in the second school. They didn't tell them why. They all thought they were going to be asked to be in a part or something. No, they just got counselled about going to the concert. One sister opened the door and said my daughter went to the concert too, so do you want her to come back here too. The parents were on their kids side, because they gave their permission for them to go. It wasn't the elders business. They were on a power trip. Anyway, that is just a small examle of the craziness my family has seen in the org. But, my mother, of course, always stressed that we do not follow imperfect men. So, I let it go at that.

Psychotic Parrot

My family probably aren't even aware that the latest generation change is an actual change at all. I think most dubs tend to let this kind of stuff go over their heads completely.

Poor deluded people.

cantleave

Emptyinside - you are not going to win them all until they are ready for it. I think lots on the inside are somewhat disturbed by the many doctrinal changes. The strategy of mentioning these changes in casual conversation is good. I have been doing this at work and you can see almost see the cogs turning.

MissingLink

OK. I see the confusion. In your original post you said "anyone who died in the last days would not be resurected". I thought you meant AT "armageddon". If you die the day before, then you got a bit of a chance (not much depending on the articles you choose to read).

*** w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***

Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.

Which doesn't quite jive with this from the "public" watchtower of April 1, 2008, page 31, last paragragh:

"Lovers of Jehovah God and his Son, Jesus Christ, need not fear Armageddon. God's battle is directed solely against those humans whom God judges to be incorrigibly wicked."

When I was a dub I would collect the fringe articles that would spin things the way I wanted to believe. There's so much flip flop, that you can really piece together your own belief system and back it up with old watchtower articles.

And some people just refuse to believe that the organization even says things. Like my mom - she refuses to believe that the organization says children will be killed at armageddon. I offered to show her in her own watchtowers, and she wouldn't even look. She said it would be ridiculous for a loving god to do that, and she wouldn't even consider the idea that her church would print such a thing.

But, my mother, of course, always stressed that we do not follow imperfect men. So, I let it go at that.

Ahh the old "we're just imperfect men therefore not accountable for our actions" vs. "we're appointed by holy spirit therefore have absolute authority" enigma.

EmptyInside

Sorry about any confusion Missing Link, glad it was cleared up for you.

Talk with family

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