Non-JWs in relationships with JWs - tough questions

by JWoods 16 Replies latest jw friends

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  JWoods

  I have noticed multiple threads here by faded JWs, non-JWs, DFd JWs, and so on in marriages or relationships with a hard-core JW.

  These are some of the most wrenching emotional situations we read about here on JWN. For sure the JW religion has done everything they possibly can to make life miserable for the non-JW partner.

  I wanted to do a thread on the subject in general without putting this on the specific personal threads - a hard, tough, question:

  IS IT REALLY WORTH IT TO LIVE A LIFETIME IN THIS KIND OF MENTALLY ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP?

  IS IT REALLY WORTH IT TO STAY THERE EVEN FOR THE PURPOSE OF KIDS?

  I know that a NO answer to either is emotionally tough...but I personally think that getting out of such a situation might be a valid choice. People get divorced every day - same religion, different religion, money issues, affairs, etc. People with kids get divorced every day and those kids grow up just the same. Maybe better than if they were in a household with constant bickering over a cult religion and it's quirks. The divorced parent does not have to absolve him/her self in relation to their children.

  Just asking. I would, for myself, get OUT of this kind of situation specifically to try to do the best thing for the adults and children involved.
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  garyneal

  IS IT REALLY WORTH IT TO LIVE A LIFETIME IN THIS KIND OF MENTALLY ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP?

  I guess it depends on how bad it gets. My wife and I have been in some pretty bad spots and not all of them are because of the religion. We stayed together. We have considered seperating but we ask ourselves has it gotten to that point yet? Personally, I would always want to try marraige counseling first unless it gets to the point of it being completely unbearable.

  IS IT REALLY WORTH IT TO STAY THERE EVEN FOR THE PURPOSE OF KIDS?

  I love my daughter and want the best for her. Therefore, I have to really evaluate what can be done to save the marraige first. Likewise, if it gets to the point to where no one in the house is happy, then yes, divorce is the final option.

  I suspect married people of all stripes go through this at some point. Religion just adds another dimension to the realm of differences coupls have to work through.
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  Heaven

  JWoods, I hope you don't mind me responding here because I don't think my response quite fits in with the overall idea of this thread.

  My relationship with JWs is not by marriage -- it's by birth. It's pretty hard to 'divorce' your parents (or cousins or aunts and uncles). The saying 'blood is thicker than water' is very true.

  Life has not been easy or overly joyous, especially after both my parents decided to become baptized. This occurred once all of their children had grown up and moved out. They started becoming critical and judgmental. They withdrew from family get togethers and did some unloving things to us. My Father pioneered and both my parents basically stopped doing normal activities so much so that we kids had to step in and do them because they weren't getting done! (eg. fixing the flashing that was causing a leak into their summer kitchen, replacing their broken down fencing, taking over the preparation of food when we visited, repairing items around the house in disrepair, etc). My Father tried to tell my brother who he could and could not marry. My Mom told me that she knew I did bad things, but when asked, she couldn't name any. I have been emotionally and psychologically pounced on by my parents over Bible scriptures and JW ideals. I have been accused of things that were 100% incorrect.

  So, in order to deal with all this, I set boundaries. Mind you, many times my parents would overstep these and I would try to respond without anger so they knew that what they were saying was not acceptable or logical. I also had to limit my exposure. It became a balancing act. My career was pretty busy anyways and I didn't live close to them so it limited the amount of time that could be spent dealing with them. I think this was/is key in my maintaining some form of sanity.

  As for my cousins, aunts, and uncles who are JWs, they don't have much to do with us. Life is too busy anyways. My Mom is gone now, and my Dad is starting to show signs of aging as his mind is not working properly anymore. He is starting to rely on me more and more. One day he will pass away and my exposure to JWs will be almost non-existent.

  Your question "Is it really worth it?" -- I think I would say "Yes" . I say this because I know my parents were mis-led and I know that to be a good person, we have to try our best to love them regardless. We all have our own ways of dealing with this. My mehtod may not work for others.

  I didn't want to look back on my life once my parents were gone and regret that I cut them off because they had been lied to. I guess it's part of my own 'Spirituality' to try and show them that a 'worldly' person can be upright and loving too.
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  dgp

  I agree with Gary. Every individual has a threshold beyond which it is not possible, correct, or self-respecting to maintain a relationship. If you're not there yet, then the relationship is still worth it, despite the pain.

  Some of the posts you find here involve people who either didn't know what they were getting into, or find themselves in that situation unexpectedly. Also, some of us fell for witnesses who let themselves get carried away initially, and then returned to the fears that come from their indoctrination. I am sure that there are many, many cases of people whose hearts were broken and we will never hear from them because the witness in question walked away.

  Personally, I was pushed away and can't see her anymore. I'm still ruminating the pain. There are days when I believe that it's for the best, but not for the reasons you would think. I shudder to think that her being with me could result in her family and friends shunning her. I wonder if I would be worth all that pain. However, now that I know the depth of the pit she's into, I can't have the heart to simply forget her becaue it was the cause of lots and lots of terrible pain. If she should ever need me, she will find my arms wide open, whether I'm married to someone else or not. Like Martin Luther would have said, "Here I stand; I cannot do otherwise". On realizing all the pain and all the misery she has gone through, the only feeling I can never part with is one of hoping that there were something I could do to at least stop the suffering. It hurts me to see that it seems there is nothing I can do. That is a pain I can't overcome. I still wake up and wonder what she's doing, but sure that, in a way, she's wasting her life away.

  And I know she loves me too. She just did "the right thing". So, as I hope you see, JWoods, the pain doesn't end when you end the relationship.

  Some people could argue that I am choosing pain. The better informed know that I have not. I can think of some people who post on this board. They are shunned by their children, and I'm sure there's not a day when they don't think of them, and I'm sure they can never stop hoping that one fine day they will hold them in their arms again. You know, that is not choosing pain. Neither have I chosen pain, either. I can consciously try to continue living my life, and yet I hope I will never become the kind of man who would turn her back on my beloved witness just because of the pain.
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  dgp

  Oh, and one more thing. I am sure that there are many witnesses who followed their indoctrination and ended what they had with worldly people or non-JW's. I'm sure that, for these people, the promise of Paradise Earth does not seem that fulfilling after all. Wouldn't it be better if only they could have their beloved one with them?

  I wonder if there is not a witness who secretly hopes that someone he or she loved dies soon, so he or she has the opportunity to be resurrected and, hopefully, to convert and share eternity.

  The heart is not cold and rational all the time. My witness said my heart is foolish. Rightly so.
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  JWoods

  JWoods, I hope you don't mind me responding here because I don't think my response quite fits in with the overall idea of this thread.

  Not at all - much the same with parents as marriage. My point here is the irony that what I am seeing is that the non-JW side of these things is usually the one to suffer the mental torture so as to maintain the relationship. Most posters here are taking far more of this abuse than I ever would.

  The JW will in many cases treat the non-JW as practically non-existent or worthless (except, as you say, to physically take care of them).

  My point of the thread was that it is not necessarily dishonorable to just draw a line in the sand with the JWs if this gets too invasive.
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  dgp

  Yes, JWoods. It's not dishonorable to draw the line in the sand, but it is never easy, and sometimes you'd rather not draw it. This is not mere irrationality at play.
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  Heaven

  JWoods, I hope you don't mind me responding here because I don't think my response quite fits in with the overall idea of this thread.

  Not at all - much the same with parents as marriage.

  Thanks, JWoods.

  My point of the thread was that it is not necessarily dishonorable to just draw a line in the sand with the JWs if this gets too invasive.

  I completely agree. I have drawn my line in my way, so to speak.

  I think I am one of the luckier ones. I have read about a lot of abuse here that I know I wouldn't be able to take. I feel badly for children who have no avenue but to endure until they are old enough to escape. The sexual abuse also makes my stomach turn.

  I think the WTS is one religious organization that uses the Bible to justify abuse. 'Headship' is one of these ideals. I saw first-hand how 'headship' oppressed my mother. I've seen it oppress my cousin too. Oppression is abuse. This is one reason I have issues with the Bible. It doesn't matter what the intention is the bottom line is that it's used to abuse. I have no truck with this.
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  greenie

  JWoods, you said, "Not at all - much the same with parents as marriage. My point here is the irony that what I am seeing is that the non-JW side of these things is usually the one to suffer the mental torture so as to maintain the relationship. Most posters here are taking far more of this abuse than I ever would.

  The JW will in many cases treat the non-JW as practically non-existent or worthless (except, as you say, to physically take care of them)."

  I think there are a couple of layers or steps into how a nonJW might get involved with a JW that you have to try to understand first. In the case of the majority of the nonJWs' acccounts I've read on this board, it seems like we all got involved with non-practicing or lightly practicing JWs and became very involved with them before they ever decided to go back to the religion. GaryNeal has been married for years, so has MarriedtoJW, and Carla as well, I believe. All of us have children with the JW. DGP became very deeply emotionally involved with his JW. It wasn't until weeks, months, or even years later that they decided to go back to the organization. Add to that the FACT that, unless you have family or friends involved, the average person doesn't really know that much about JWs and the WTS, so there would have been no way for us to really know what we were getting involved in. Seriously, never in a million years would I have imagined myself involved in something like this.

  Can you try to imagine, from our shoes, trying to wrap your head around your mate - who you've built a life with, had children with, made many good memories with, had fun times, made plenty of other nonJW friends with, etc. - suddenly deciding to abandon you and the life you've built together to go back to an extremely high control group? I hate to liken the situation to a loved one on drugs, but I know if my significant other, sister or child started abusing drugs, I would do everything I could to bring them back from it, even if it meant suffering a little myself. At least for me, the idea that my wonderful life with my fiance could end due to the teachings of an extreme, small, high-control group is so very disconcerting. It's really, really hard to fathom. At this point, I feel like it's not something I'm willing to give up without a fight.
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  greenie

  Two more things:

  Heaven said: "Your question "Is it really worth it?" -- I think I would say "Yes" . I say this because I know my parents were mis-led and I know that to be a good person, we have to try our best to love them regardless. We all have our own ways of dealing with this. My mehtod may not work for others."

  That's another big part of it. From my perspective, I love and care about this man and what happens to him. From my perspective I also see that he is being misled and I want to rescue him, save him from it. I see him sometimes suffer from the guilt of it all and I want to make him feel better. This is someone I love. It also makes mad as hell at the organization, and at times even his parents for raising him that way...or their parents for raising them that way...and so on and so on.

  You also discussed a line in the sand. I guess mine would be that IF he does fully go back, he should not expect me to change my life and way of doing things to adapt to his. I WILL not. There will be holidays, birthdays, politics, Harry Potter, extracurricular activities and worldly friends, even if he chooses not to participate. There will not be headship and full family attendance at conventions, assemblies and meetings. And no, I'm not sure our relationship could survive it, which is heartwrenching and very scary, but he is the one that wants the drastic change. And again, it doesn't make me mad at him, just incredibly sad and angry at an organization that would willingly and knowingly take advantage of kind, trusting and innocent people.