by Englishman 37 Replies latest jw friends

  • Englishman


    Many thanks for the quotes from M Scott Peck. Her Ladyship reckons that "The road less travelled" was a major turning point in her life. It helped identify a family member's ploys to keep her subservient.


    OK, it WAS her mother, what the heck!

    Bring on the dancing girls!

  • Lionel_P_Hartley


    Outstanding post! Thanks.


  • SYN

    Englishman, what'd you mean in your post when you said "no worse than castrating a man...no big deal at all?"

    I'm confused, as in my opinion that's the worst thing that can happen to a man!

    "I see no good reasons why the views given in this volume should shock the religious sensibilities of anyone." -- Charles Darwin, The Origin Of Species, 1869.

  • Cygnus

    JWs essentially have one thing in common: the belief in Jehovah, and the belief in organized religion.

    That is all.

    JWs as individuals vary culturally, scholastically, and economically. They have differing personalities, tastes, desires, and endeavors.

    You simply cannot lump all JWs into two or three specific (and primarily negative!) categories. I do not sympathize with the core JW beliefs. Yet I know _exactly_ what Joelbear was getting at.

  • Scully

    SYN and Eman:

    I remember a similar lady exclaiming at a male horse's appearance once (5 legs, know what I mean, wink) and I remaarked that it must be awful for a stallion to be gelded.

    She responded by saying that it was no different than castrating a man, no big deal at all. She was serious.

    Perhaps in technical surgical terms, castration is a fairly simple "no big deal" procedure. However, it appears from what she said, and how she said it, that she also considered it to be "a good thing" (with apologies to Martha Stewart).

    Peck also draws on the works of Erich Fromm in his book. Fromm extends

    the definition of necrophilia to include the desire of certain people to control others -- to make them controllable, to foster their dependency, to discourage their capacity to think for themselves, to diminish their unpredictability and originality, to keep them in line. Distinguishing it from a "biophilic" person, one who appreciates and fosters the variety of life forms and the uniqueness of the individual, he demonstrated a "necrophilic character type," whose aim it is to avoid the inconvenience of life by transforming others into obedient automatons, robbing them of their humanity.
    To this woman, castration (either literal or figurative) was a convenient way for her to impose her will on a man. By verbally and behaviourally emasculating someone, she destroys their self-worth, their sense of purpose, and their drive or initiative to act of their own accord, and then she promptly imposes her will upon them to do her bidding. SYN you are right in saying that it's the 'worst thing that can happen' to ANYONE.

    Don't know if you ever got a chance to meet her husband, Englishman, but I would hazard a guess that he would be one of those simpering, pathetic men with very poor self-esteem, who did what he was told (by her) when he was told. Very sad.

    Love, Scully

    It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63

  • DB

    To a degree, I agree with this post by Englishman. While I would stop short of using words like "evil" and even "stupid", I can attest that:

    1. Some of the Witness friends that are of my daughter's age have been far more manipulative than her school friends.

    2. I do not think that being a Witness makes people "better" husbands, wives, children, etc., as the Society claims. While in some cases some people straighten out lives that may have been plagued by drug abuse, violent behavior, etc., such claims can be made from many religions.

    3. Witnesses emphasize being busy in their activities rather than developing traits that make people more likeable. Things like field service and meeting attendance are valued, while personal qualities take a back seat. As a result, they end up with quite a few nasty folks who have no incentive to treat people nicely because they feel very good about themselves since they are very active in JW activity.
    The WT has even claimed that "personality enhancement" is not a goal of their educational work. Yet, to me, full development of the "fruitage of the spirit" would include qualities which help a person to be nice to others.

  • dungbeetle

    I totally agree with the E-man here. Even in the bible, God saved family members along with the righteous ones. God is the one who set up the family structure (biblically speaking) and JW's are willing to chose a group of old men in brooklyn over their families.

    The hard part about sitting through these meetings, is hearing about 'the faitfula nd discreet slave' over and over again. This presents 2 problems...

    1) a group of old men in Brooklyn do not constitute 'the fds' to me. I need evidence that these increasing number of partakers actually are in agreement with all these ridiculous polices. You would think it was obvious they were----but is it so?

    2) the Borg itself has admitted that more and more non-anointed are climbing up the ranks. What constitutes the FDS---50%, 60% anointed?

    So the idea of choosing this 'arrangement' over your children and parents is worse than ridiculous. It's inhuman and over the course of the last year, my sympathy for anyone except the most elderly of JW's is eroding faster and faster.

    One thing is for sure----it's a lot easier sometimes to become a Jehovah's Witness than to try and help the ones who already are. Believe me, I know.

    just my 1/2 cents worth...

    In 1975 a crack team of publishers was sentenced to death by a judicial commiteee. They promptly escaped from the cult and now live life on the run. If you have a problem ... and if you can find them ... maybe you can contact the A--postate Team"

  • Scully

    Cygnus writes:

    JWs essentially have one thing in common: the belief in Jehovah, and the belief in organized religion.
    That is all.

    Cyg, you are being dishonest with us in saying that, and dishonest with yourself if you actually believe it. First of all, I'm counting TWO things in your list there. Secondly, you leave out very important information.

    Watchtower, April 1/86
    Questions From Readers
    Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs unique to Jehovah's Witnesses

    .So, in order to be a JW in good standing, one must accept the teachings unique to JWs. Such as, but not limited to:
    a) Armageddon is just around the corner and will wipe out everyone and anything that is at cross-purposes with the WTS/JWs;
    b) the use of Blood for life-saving medical purposes is wrong and evil;
    c) Children do not deserve to be heard when an elder molests them;
    d) Disfellowshipping is a loving thing;
    e) Expelling and shunning are loving things;
    f) the Faithful and Discreet Slave is infallible, and to point out otherwise results in (d)and (e), also Faith = Works;
    g) the Governing body is dispensing spiritual food at the proper time;
    h) Heaven is only open to 144,000 Humans;
    i) Independent thinking is wrong;
    j) Jehovah will take care of problems within the organization in "his due time";
    k) Koala bears are good examples for parents to follow in disciplining their children;
    l) disfellowshipping is a Loving provision;
    m) Marriage is the only proper forum for people to express sexuality;
    n) the New World Translation is an excellent, accurate rendition of the Holy Scriptures;
    o) Oral sex is bad;
    p) Phallic symbols are everywhere;
    q) QUIET PLEASE (signs at assemblies);
    r) Relaxation means you should be studying a Watchtower publication instead;
    s) Salvation is contingent upon association with the WTS/JWs;
    t) Time slips must be submitted to be considered approved;
    u) Unity is redefined to mean 'conformity';
    v) Variety in thought and belief is a sign of weakness;
    w) Women, while making up the majority of followers, have no say in decision-making processes;
    x) eXiting the JWs makes you a bad person;
    y) Young People Ask (enough said);
    z) Zebras are notorious for their high sexual appetite.....

    Shall we go on??

    Love, Scully

    It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63

  • SYN

    Thx Scully, it all makes sense now - I guess I just took the remark out of context!

    Zebras have high sexual appetites - truer words have never been spoken, ehehe!

    "I see no good reasons why the views given in this volume should shock the religious sensibilities of anyone." -- Charles Darwin, The Origin Of Species, 1869.


    Hey E-man,your on the money with this post...OUTLAW

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