Teel said: "It's a very special order item, most JWs don't even know about it. I'm sure someone here will be able to provide you with a digital copy."
It's posted on the message board at the KH near me. Yikes.
Has anyone tried to prevent ex-spouse from training the kids as JWs?
by Michelle365 51 Replies latest watchtower bible
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GLTirebiter
he lets them watch LOTR
What? I don't think that's appropriate for first and second graders. Those films are rated PG-13, as I recall, because of all the Armageddon-like battle scenes. It's not that they aren't good movies, they are. But they're for teens and adults--not young children. Remember that custody decisions are based on what is in "the best interests of the children", so this apparent lack of judgement may be relevant in a custody case. Your attorney should know that your Ex allows this; a lawyer will know whether the court would consider that when making a decision.
When dealing with the children, I agree with Heartbreaker. Be a good and loving parent, don't disparage their other parent (even if he does deserve it!). You are your kids' primary example of what a non-JW is. Don't make the WT propaganda come true; show them an example of a good person who doesn't blindly obey every whim of the F&D Slave-drivers. Keep the long-term goals in mind, that will help you have the courage to act honorably and persevere through the day to day battles with your Ex.
Wishing you and the children the best,
GLT
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Michelle365
JWoods—you asked if I had primary custody. In Florida we have something called “co-parenting”. We split the time 50/50 and we are supposed to make mutually acceptable decisions regarding, Health, Education, Religion, and I forgot the 4 th one. Lol.
Heartbreaker—I totally agree with you that it’s expensive and often not worth the fight. Right now we alternate weekends my ex takes them to meetings on MY Sundays. He refuses to agree that they don’t have to go so we have to go back to court to get the custody arrangement altered. So since I am ALREADY paying and going through the stress I felt that if I was going to make religion an issue I should do it now rather than later to avoid paying again. I’ve been doing the whole “be the bigger person” and “set the example” thing. But I keep having freak outs that it’s a huge effing cult and I NEED to get the girls out. Lol. I just don’t know anyone that’s done it successfully.
Nugget—You hit right on my problem. He DOES try to enforce his rules in my home using the “the girls are JWs EVERYONE” line of reasoning. Telling the kids “mom’s house, mom’s rules” put the pressure on THEM and it’s not fair. I’ve tried explaining that I don’t tell them what to do at Daddy’s, and that they have to do what I say so they can’t get in trouble with him and if he has a problem I will deal with him. However is the lowest form of lowlife and he will punish them no matter what. It’s the easiest and quickest way to get me to back down because I won’t give him the opportunity to do that to my children. In the end though he is still controlling my life and limiting my parenting of my children. Great news about how your children are adjusting! I’m so happy for your family!
Terry—You said “ May I humbly suggest that the best/only way to combat bad ideas is with better ones?” Sure. Great Suggestion. That is where I am lacking I feel that I don’t have better ideas to replace the bad ones. I don’t get bogged downed in JW doctrine because honestly I’m just not indoctrinated enough on it anymore. I know I can’t hold my own with it. Generally, I just keep asking the kids “why”. Why can’t you do Valentine’s Day? Why can’t you play with your friend from school? The answer is ALWAYS because Daddy will get mad. Never have they said, I don’t want to disobey Jehovah. I’m hoping that he does shitty job of indoctrinating them and they just don’t ever get sucked in. Hope just isn’t enough though I feel the need to be proactive as well. I like the examples you brought out and will try to bring them to a level my girls can grasp.
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Michelle365
Black Sheep—Thanks for the link! Looks interesting!
CrazyBlondeB—I’d love to have that kind of stipulation. Thanks, I’m gonna try for it.
JaimeBowers—He is a nutjob cult member. Lol. We are working with a counselor now and I feel that she is sympathetic to my side. She is supposed to be examining the kids at some point too. It’s just SUCH a sticky thing in this country to get a judge to rule against a religion. My only option in my state is to go for “detriment of parent/child bond”. Seems like an easy thing to prove based on my being df’d and him working the girls towards baptism but I’m not ashamed to say that I’m afraid of the WTBS machine. I’m afraid of forcing the girls to NOT go and alienating them further. I would prefer to continue to just show them a better way and hope they choose the real “truth” but at times feel that is a luxury that I cannot afford. Thanks for writing, AwSnap keeps telling me to contact you, she says you’d be a great support in this area. I just get so overwhelmed at times and the thought of writing out my story in a coherent fashion can be daunting.
GLTirebiter—Yeah he’s also a hypocrite. Lol. So weird for a JW to like that, huh? He & I went to all the Harry Potter movies and LOTR when we were married. But because the Watchtower specifically named Potter, the girls can’t watch it. It’s SUCH crap because he lets him watch worse and he lets them play Xbox & Playstation games that are full of magic and fighting and “too-old” themes. Halo, Oblivion, Morrowwind, etc. It is impossible to reason with him on any such matter. There was a line from the tv show House that I just love. It was something like “you can’t reason with religious people. If you could, there wouldn’t BE any religious people.” Hugh Laurie is so awesome in his delivery and that is how I feel constantly about my ex. I don’t know how to work with someone that has zero reasoning powers.
Thank you everyone for the well wishes and the tips. I am always open to anything that has worked or is working. Keep them coming!
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Found Sheep
wow lots of good advice!! being raised one parent in Dad and Mom not.... It's been said but i'll say again don't be negative about your ex or religion. He will be negative with what you teach and that gives you the upper hand!!! Love your kids and help them with the early signs of guilt when they get to do things with you that dad didn't let them. I didn't get out till a year ago... but i did get out.
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carla
I have only skimmed many responses but I would do all I could to keep them out of a kh. Probably not a reality but ....... My jw joined up a number of years ago and we at first decided to keep the kids out of the whole situation. That is not possible with a jw, they lie, sneak around, etc.... When I found out he was secretely trying to indoctrinate the kids I had to take action. It came down to if he wanted to take them to the kh every other weekend I would begin taking them to all the religious services and expose them to ALL the world relgions. The fear of them going to a Catholic church (he wasn't to thrilled about Lutheran, Methodist, etc.. either) was enough for him much less the Hindu, etc.... Secondly I began reading the ex jw boards while he was at meetings and they would ask me what I was looking at so..... they are familiar with all the issues ex jw's face when leaving and are quite disgusted with the religion. That, along with the profound changes in their dad. I also told them they need not believe anything I say about the jw's and to research on their own if they like, it didn't take long for them to discover how wretched this religion is for families and especially children. Teach your kids critical thinking skills and how to research. Warn them about cults in general because someday they may encounter other cults.
He takes the kids on your weekend? Tell him you will be taking them to your service of choice from now on! I have read a few divorce cases where one parent did not go to any sort of 'church' and that parent lost out in court. I have known a few non jw parents that joined a church just so the court would not find in favor of the jw religion. Usually when a court sees the choice of life as a jw vs life going to Sunday school, plays, choir, youth activities, etc... they find in favor of the non jw religion. Just a thought. In my case it truly would have been over my dead body that my kids ever stepped foot in a kh but that's just me.
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troubled mind
When the children are with you your husband should not have the right to come and get them to make them attend a meeting with him .
Think of it this way "IF" you did have another religion YOU would have equal right to have them attend church with you and share your beliefs with them equally .
From what I see in your post you are still allowing him to control you . You have every right to tell him NO he is not getting the girls on your weekends period . Also if the girls are with you for a school holiday they are participating and he isn't allowed to guilt them . These are the points the Judge needs to be made aware of ....that HE is not allowing you equal right in parenting ...and You do need the lawyer to try everything possible now to make sure your ex's manipulative ways are put in check . Do it now before it is to late .
It should be your rules at your house and explain to the children what the terms guilt and manipulation mean and how it is applied . Then help them see how to cope with it in their own lives .
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AwSnap
omg I just typed a long ass thing & my internet connection shut down. lol
Yes, you can teach your children to think critically, but the fact remains that they are very young and being subjected to harsh and unnecessary guilt by their father.
You feel like its pretty much lose lose right? Either you say 'MOMMY'S HOUSE MOMMY'S RULES' & then their dad 'Gets mad' and uses guilt and punishment. OR you could *not* celebrate the holidays with your girls so that they dont get in trouble<-----tho this gives your ex some control. Have I mentioned how much I hate him?
I think you should still decorate for holidays (maybe not Mother's Day or you may appear to be a narcissist, lol). Whomever said you should make cupcakes on a non-holiday has it right IMHO. Would your ex get angry if you made cupcakes a week before or a week after a particular holiday?
Terry & Ziddina also had great advice. Get sharp- beat him at his own game.
The girls are still so young. They will see through it all, i KNOW it! They have so many non-jw's who love them very much. Does your mom or dad or siblings ever call the girls?
I'm sorry you have nobody in your shoes...I wish I could give great advice. I love you Michelle
TroubledMind, I think Michelle signed a contract allowing the ex to take the girls to meetings, even on 'her' days with them. She had a lot going on at the time and was mentally drained...plus, I dont think she totally realized its a cult at the time
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Terry
Terry—You said “ May I humbly suggest that the best/only way to combat bad ideas is with better ones?” Sure. Great Suggestion. That is where I am lacking I feel that I don’t have better ideas to replace the bad ones. I don’t get bogged downed in JW doctrine because honestly I’m just not indoctrinated enough on it anymore. I know I can’t hold my own with it. Generally, I just keep asking the kids “why”. Why can’t you do Valentine’s Day? Why can’t you play with your friend from school? The answer is ALWAYS because Daddy will get mad. Never have they said, I don’t want to disobey Jehovah. I’m hoping that he does shitty job of indoctrinating them and they just don’t ever get sucked in. Hope just isn’t enough though I feel the need to be proactive as well. I like the examples you brought out and will try to bring them to a level my girls can grasp.
Parenting is the long haul. A garden grows not in a day.
You can't put a year's worth of water on a flower and expect it to sprout.
You don't have to KNOW anything or indoctrinate anything into your kids.
You can be their firm soil and their shade emotionally.
Be calm. Be reasonable. Be a companion. Treat them fair.
Don't push ideas and behavior on them with that spooky/creepy fervor religious fanatics often display.
You will WIN BY ATTRITION.
Who do you think children want to be around, spend time with and admire? Somebody always pushing a "do this/don't do that agenda? Or, a centered, neutral and caring authority who loves them and listens, listens, listens.
JW's don't know how to listen!
Children need to be heard.
We all know that in the long haul children reared in Jehovah's Witness households turn against the organization because it tries to make them into anti-social freaks!
The natural intelligence of social creatures makes this abhorrent.
Just be REAL and the rest will come to you.
Let the JW parent be the weirdo with the not so hidden agenda.
Never criticize because it polarizes children.
Children are not source authorities, so, it puts them in a bad place to ask them 'WHY CAN'T YOU do such and so.....?"
Simply put across to them you are available to spend time with them doing what they might enjoy. Keep it neutral.
NEVER PUSH AN AGENDA!
You are there for them. You are their advocate.
Smile, relax, assume confidence and you will be fair weather and cloudless skies in a world of storms and upheaval.
Birds flock to the friendly branch, not the spiked bush with thorns.
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Lady Lee
Michelle
PM me your email address and I will snd you the WT booklet Preparing for Child Custody Cases
I know there has been at least one case where this booklet was used successfully in court to stop the JW parent from alienating the non-JW parent
And definitely read and even print out the info on the Freeminds site and give it to your lawyer along with the WT booklet (71 pages you'll have to print out)