by Andyman 11 Replies latest jw friends
I have a discussion going on another board about the so called "free" literature from the society. I have tried to explain that is not free but the JW's insist I am lying.
All the JW's keep saying it's "free" no charge. I would love any comments on this topic so I can link it to the JW's over there. I have brought up the pay at the counter and again when you get donations in the field, but they deny all of it.
Thanks.
Andyman:
No, of course it ain't free. When someone pitches you at your door for whatever it is they're "giving away" and then segues into another pitch about the possibility of you engaging in a little reciprocity in the form of cash to support their "world wide missionary work," then the publications ain't free.
Just because you misrepresent what you're up to doesn't change the nature of reality; and the reality is that the JWs are going to ask you for money. It's absurd to posit that re-arranging the choice and sequence of words changes what you're doing. That's called "redefining" and it's dishonest and the JWs do it in mid-presentation.
The message is clear: "We gave you this publication for free, now how about you giving us some cash for our work?"
My response to that - after raping and pillaging everything I can get my hands on out of that bookbag they're carrying - is "No, I don't think I want to support your work. But thanks anyway. Bye." Then I close the door and pitch the bullshit in the trash. Keeps them from "giving" it to someone else.
Lying, deceitful bastards. Giving up their personal integrity for an organization that's never gotten ONE thing right.
My two cents.
Francois
Handyman,
I have a friend, an ex JW, who used to be a literature servant or whatever they call them now. He told me some of the subterfuge methods they would have to use to ensure that enough contributions went into the box, which you would trip over if you didn't watch your step. If you didn't know how much to contribute, he would say, well if you bought a book like this in the store you would have to pay so much for it.
But what I found most illuminating is this: Many congregations would get behind with their literature accounts with the Society. Now congregations pay up front to the Society. Literature is sent out to the congregations and payment is automatically drawn from the cong's bank accounts as it comes in. If there is a shortfall in contributions for the literature, the congregation has to absorb it somehow.
belbab
Belbab writes:
But what I found most illuminating is this: Many congregations would get behind with their literature accounts with the Society. Now congregations pay up front to the Society. Literature is sent out to the congregations and payment is automatically drawn from the cong's bank accounts as it comes in. If there is a shortfall in contributions for the literature, the congregation has to absorb it somehow.
Huh?? They still CHARGE congregations for literature, even though they request DONATIONS instead of charging the cost of production??? I noticed when they switched to the Donation Arrangement, the Accounts Report no longer included a breakdown of what was owed for literature or magazines; so naturally everyone assumed that the congregation wasn't being charged for them. So much for that theory. I remember hearing about deficits in the literature/magazine accounts in the past too, but I thought that was strange because you couldn't just take your magazines without paying for them first.
Love, Scully
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
from:
http://www.freeminds.org/history/fraud.htm
Dear Randy:
I thought I'd tell you of an experience some years ago when I served as an elder in Jersey City, New Jersey, during the first month of the change from selling books to the "Voluntary Donation" system. It seemed everyone one and their mothers decided that now was a good time to stock their libraries. Pioneers were now doubling up on their magazines for service. Witnesses who rarely bought anything, were now ordering, the New World Translation on Tapes [which, when price sold for over $100.00] everything and anything was being ordered. I was in charge of the literature counter. The invoices included in the orders were now dollarless. Three months later, the elders received a letter from the Society. It basically stated that they [the Society] noticed an enormous increase in literature orders. That the congregation had made purchases of some $3,000.00 and our donations were only somehere around $500.00. They told us we [the congregation] owed the Society $2,300.00. I'm thinking to myself..."hey wait a minute, isn't the literature "FREE" on voluntary donations?" Obviously not! The Society had it all planned out. In the envelope was another letter, addressed to the congregation. That letter basically told of the great work the Society was doing and how support was needed.
In view of that I had announced that we [the congregation] were donating to the Society from the congregation fund $2,500.00 for the World Wide Work.
Clever of them? The Society still got their money. I wonder how many congregations got that letter? Of course only the body of elders knew the truth for sure, the rest of the friends were left to believe we were so loving and generous by supporting the Society with such a big donation. Mind you no mention of the excess literature order was made.
How can they sleep at nights? It was situations like these that opened my mind to the true nature of the Society. They are a publishing house...we are their salesmen...what was that the Judge said "Advertise, Advertise, Advertise..." Nothing has changed!
In His Name!
Rolando Rodriguez
the address of the congregation:
Jersey City West Congregation
582 Bramhall Avenue
Jersey City,NJ 07304
you couldn't just take your magazines without paying for them first.
I guess it depends on what cong you are in. In the two different congs I was in, I was never, not once, asked for money. Nor was the need hinted for. The only hint was the donation box next to the literature counter.
Since the donation arrangement came in, I was never pressured to pay for any literature, nor am I aware that others were. There was a little pressure to get donations from householders but almost everyone ignored that. We were all too shy to ask for money.
This may have been because I was very vocal about the donation arrangement. Plus, we had a few well-off brothers who generously donated to the KH, so funds were probably not normally an issue.
What I did notice was weird donations to the Society. One accounts report said said we were donating had $1200 in our bank account and were donating $900 to the Society. That left $300. Since we had a $600 heating bill, the cong was asked to provide the additonal $300 needed. I wondered, but was too shy to ask, why we didn't pay the $600 heating bill first and then donate $600 to the Society, instead of the original $900 donation. After all, the Society has $billions and won't miss $300. Now, I know, the "donation" was a "payment" for literature.
Another weird thing: I was the cong's librarian. I was allowed to order literature for the cong library as I pleased, but I was not allowed to get the latest WT CD-ROMs. I had to get brothers to donate old WT CD-ROMs. I was told it was to save the Society money. Now I suspect it was to avoid the $40 charge to the cong.
Richard
francois, I happen to agree with you on this one.
No, of course it ain't free. When someone pitches you at your door for whatever it is they're "giving away" and then segues into another pitch about the possibility of you engaging in a little reciprocity in the form of cash to support their "world wide missionary work," then the publications ain't free.First of all, they've been told over and over again and the forgetful drones are not supposed to say "free". They're supposed to say "NO CHARGE" on the condition that you "READ" them. As you pointed out there IS a BIG difference. No charge accurately allows them a wedge to ask for "voluntary contribution" toward the "worldwide Bible educational work".
I would also argue that once you're in, they encourage you to get on the monthly tab with "regular" donations, and, in their literature on preparing wills, they give specific instructions to will stuff to the Society. (With all the Baby-Boomers wealth transferred over the next couple of decades, this is going to be giga-$$$$$$$$$$ mark my words everybody.) Don't think Gen-X is going to inherit it all... yet we'll be paying higher taxes to support the healthcare and pensions of these as they get into their better years.....OK so I'm off topic here that's a whole other thread(s).....
Not only that, but it COSTS the Society something to produce all that literature with expensive printing (albeit free labor and free in-house tech support on translation, MEPS, etc). In reality, the Society has carefully measured all the costs in relation to the donation potential and history, and they DO come out ahead...at least for the time being. The thing is, the WTS is so large asset-wise, that, even if donations (gravy) train stopped, they STILL can command huge investment income and they do...so the press self-perpetuates. The literature is NOT free.
Dogpatch's reference:
Another weird thing: I was the cong's librarian. I was allowed to order literature for the cong library as I pleased, but I was not allowed to get the latest WT CD-ROMs. I had to get brothers to donate old WT CD-ROMs. I was told it was to save the Society money. Now I suspect it was to avoid the $40 charge to the cong.
Silly asses. I just got the bound volumes AUTOMATICALLY sent to our family last week even though I never requested them. It costs at least 40 bucks even with the sweat labor of the drone servant class to manufacture these! Not to mention wasted paper! What were they thinking? It costs a pittance to produce CD media these days; the hardware setup is minimal for medium-scale production and blank media can be bought for literally a couple of dimes or so each on bulk. I'm completely dumbfounded as to why CD-ROMs weren't made standard issue in the days of computer ownership! Why heck the 650 megs or so replaces large portions of WT libraries! But then, what the heck, keep the poor sobs serving "Jah" on the presses...
When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers ... we are ripping the foundations of justice from beneath future generations.
sunscapes,
I think we both know the answers to your questions. I agree that CDs are cheap and eco-friendly, etc.
The real reason, of course, is profit: $40 charged to the cong for a CD is almost pure profit. Plus, they keep printing more mags so that they can make more profit. Downloading mags from the Internet is the cheapest form of distribution, but there is no profit in it. The "preaching work" is actually a cost-free (to the Society) distribution and sales system. Has been from the days of Russell. The profits on magazine sales were 500% in 1979, think of what the profit margin must be now!
Then at the end of each year, another very profitable CD is produced.
God, I wish I had the lack of conscience to do it...
Richard
That just isn't so, Belbab; there are no calculations made between the Society and the congregations in this respect; never have we been asked for money, and never have we been told we have not sent enough, that we have to pre-pay or anything. Skeptic is right, apart from the fact that CD-Roms can also be ordered readily.
