Borg court: 1st session

by sd-7 111 Replies latest jw friends

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    Record of committee meeting #1

    After prayer, Proverbs 28:13 was read: "He who is covering over his transgressions will not succeed, but he who is confessing and leaving them will be shown mercy." The need to confess to Jehovah was emphasized. As Jehovah's representatives, the elders said we therefore needed to confess to them. One must add the mathematical equation, if a = b, and b = c, then a = c. If we have to confess to Jehovah, but we have to confess to you, you = Jehovah. Obviously, confessing to God in prayer is irrelevant; even if we did so, apparently we could never receive his spirit or forgiveness unless we told these men.

    After some questioning, my wife was asked to leave the proceedings. They proceeded to ask me what I thought was the purpose of judicial committee. "To remove uncleanness from the congregation?" "No," the elder replied. He explained that it was for the purpose of helping a person to avoid repeating their mistakes. He then asked me again, "What is the purpose of this committee?" He expected me to repeat his exact words. I again said, after looking at him for a moment, "To remove uncleanness from the congregation?" He repeated his explanation, and for a third time, asked, "What is the purpose of this committee?" Looking at one of the other elders, I echoed his exact words, "To prove that 'no one can sin in Jehovah's organization with impunity'?" For a fourth time, the first elder provides his explanation and asks, "What is the purpose of this committee?" I found this line of discussion to be, in my opinion, merely a means of demonstrating their authority and demanding that my thoughts become identical to theirs. The only possible answer had to be the one they were providing.

    I was then questioned about a detail I saw as irrelevant. I proceeded to answer with a question of my own: "Why is that relevant?" It was then explained to me that in order to demonstrate that I "wanted help", I needed to avoid withholding any information. This, apparently, meant that any question regardless of relevance could be asked and factored into their decision. They resorted to threats. "Do you want to be disfellowshipped? 'Cause we can do that Wednesday," one of them said. I remained silent. They then told me of another case where they spent 6 hours talking to a sister who was guilty of fornication. She finally asked them to DF her and left to get in the car with her boyfriend. This implication was the typical character generalization given to people who are DF'ed--they all want to be grossly immoral and do whatever they feel like. If I was that kind of guy, I certainly wouldn't have gotten married as I did; I might've just lived with her or something. But that, of course, is irrelevant to them, looks more like a cover-up.

    What struck me as curious was that, for all their apparent desire to "help", it did not take long for them to resort to threats and intimidation. It seemed a lot like typical police interrogation--from people who, of course, do not claim to be policemen.

    They then brought my wife back into the room, reread Proverbs 28:13, and asked her to tell them all about what happened. Contrary to what I'd heard, they didn't ask any intimate questions, but she told them that will probably create problems in the home in the future.

    The particularly odd thing about it is that they asked, not about how we felt about it, but whether or not anyone saw us going into or coming out of the house. It became apparent from that that they were interested, not in our spiritual well-being, but in the congregation's appearing 'clean'. As long as the outside of the cup or dish was clean, then perhaps the punishment would be light on us.

    They were clearly intending to play my wife against me and use her as a pawn in their manipulations. She exaggerated our sins, by the way; we did not have sex 'every other night' for 2.5 months. There is no way that could have happened, as I was far too tired for it.

    She then got back on the apostasy issue. She expressed her belief that I had not let go of my doubts about the 'faithful slave'. They expressed a great interest in pursuing that line of interrogation further. It was then that they suggested we meet again, on Sunday night, to discuss matters further. This did not happen. They rescheduled for this Wednesday night.

    The circuit overseer visit is this week; it is entirely possible he will personally be present. Especially given that they believe I'm intelligent and that I've probably been exposed to 'apostate material'.

    They assigned us scriptures in the Psalms to read, mostly David's guilty songs after the Bath-sheba incident, where he emphasizes his pain and his need to confess his sins to Jehovah.

    The irony I found in those scriptures is that David did NOT confess his sins to any human. He killed a man in order to cover up his sins! He didn't acknowledge his sin until it was brought to his attention by someone who already knew about it. That was not a confession; it was an acknowledgement of guilt. And also ironically, David's life was spared and people whose lives were entirely unrelated to the sin--including an innocent child--were taken as a result. (What's the logic in killing a baby over what a man did? That doesn't strike me as justice--maybe the JW kind.) Not exactly a good example to follow, apart from his being repentant.

    So, we're in a bit of limbo, waiting for what is to come. I'm really only doing this because I want to see what they'll do, and because I want to see what my wife will do, and how they will use her in manipulating the situation to their advantage.

    It is still frightening and a little painful, but I feel...better knowing now that...I just started to see that they really are only men. It's nice to know that.

    There will certainly be hard repercussions. I'm having dreams where I keep running into people from the congregation where I grew up--elders, mostly. But you know, I think in time, things will right themselves. I'll find a way to keep it together, or...perhaps I'll lose everything. We'll just have to see what happens.

    I'm only going through with this for my wife. I suppose part of me wanted to believe they really weren't policemen. They proved me wrong. Now, I have no respect for them anymore, at all. Much less legitimate fear of what they can do. Again, the Joker comes to mind. "You have NOTHING, nothing to threaten me with! Nothing to do with all your strength!"

    But you know...I will say that I accept that, according to my own standards, I was wrong in the sins I committed. I don't deny that, and I've no interest in having sex with someone who is not my wife ever, ever again. I've hated sex all because of this religion anyway, and it was always associated with guilt even after marriage. So...it works out. I do acknowledge I'm wrong. But I don't believe repentance can be determined by committee. That's really something only God can determine. And I trust it to Him. I'll answer for it in His due time, not that of men.

    But I better go. Wife might see me on here and I'll just end up with more problems. Take care.

    --Christopher

  • undercover
    undercover
    As Jehovah's representatives, the elders said we therefore needed to confess to them. One must add the mathematical equation, if a = b, and b = c, then a = c. If we have to confess to Jehovah, but we have to confess to you, you = Jehovah.

    Wow...their shit don't stink does it?

    I found this line of discussion to be, in my opinion, merely a means of demonstrating their authority and demanding that my thoughts become identical to theirs. The only possible answer had to be the one they were providing.

    Another indication of just what kind of self-righteous pricks they are.

    What struck me as curious was that, for all their apparent desire to "help", it did not take long for them to resort to threats and intimidation.

    The last refuge of a dumb interogator... It was obvious you weren't going to roll over and play dead. You're willing to question and stand up to them. If they can't get you with guilt, they switch to fear.

    I think you're all right now... You've figured out that they're only men. They don't really represent or speak for any god. What can they do to you? Nothing. What can the Organization do to you? Nothing.

    I wouldn't let them get to you anymore...now you have to work on helping your wife to learn the things you've learned.

    Good luck and keep us posted. We're with you...

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Cults shoot their wounded. I would encourage you to begin speaking with people who care about you or with a counselor/therapist.

  • out4good3
    out4good3

    I, with great hummility, accept this award of Glutius Assholicus Maximus as upon them asking me that question a second time and expecting me to parrot their answer, their asses would've been shown the door.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Were you able to warn your wife ahead of time that they would manipulate her against you? Then afterwards show her exactly how they did just that?

    Sorry you're going through all this. You're a braver man than I am. Hang tough, we're all with you here.

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    sd-7 You did wrong? my friend you have not done anything wrong, it is all a game, thats all. I am assuming based on your statements that maybe you had an affair? if that is the case it really is between you and your wife, but thats only an assumption.

    This could be a good opportunity for you to show your wife their real intentions and concerns. Be happy you have a chance (by means of a JC) to demonstrate the idiocy of th WT to your wife. So in away this is rather a tool, a blessing if you want.

    Thanks for documenting it. It would be great if you could record the next meetings. you know you can always buy a small recorder and if you are not happy with the results then return it afterwards :-)

    Im glad you are doing better, hang on, I just realized I was in 4 JCs and during my life. one of them lasted a whole freaking month and I was only 16. Those MotherF(#)rs.

    Peace.

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    It wasn't even an affair, cyber. He AND HIS WIFE had sex before getting married. YEARS AGO!

    That's all it was. The worst thing they did was NOT TELL THE ELDERS.

    Let me qualify that. Worst thing according to the borg. I'm not convinced he did anything wrong, either, or that God cares whether a guy has sex with his fiance'.

  • Gerard
    Gerard

    What a wonderful oportunity to open your wife's eyes and break free from the cult!

  • chickpea
    chickpea

    oh man, i dont even know what to
    think or say except i hope you are
    able to talk to someone IRL about
    what you are going thru...

    take good care, mate

    tough situation for sure

  • Think About It
    Think About It

    I'd turn it right back on them. Tell them, if none of them had pre-marital sex then DF. If they did have pre-marital sex, then show mercy and make it private reproof. Let their conscience condemn them. Either way it is rediculous that a young married couple have to put up with these perverts (which by the way none of them being their fathers), coming into their bedroom to discuss their sexual relations prior to their marriage.

    Think About It

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