Calvinists: Why I Can't I Choose to be Saved? (page 3)

leavingwt

So, if the egg I grew from had never been fertilized, I wouldn't have to spend eternity in Hell.

My unfertilized egg-siblings are some lucky bastards.

BurnTheShips

LeavingWT's posts frequently give me this mental image:

leavingwt

LOL @ Burns. You're being too kind. I should have horns and a forked tongue or something.

JWoods

Do present-day Presbyterians actually worry much about this?

leavingwt

Do present-day Presbyterians actually worry much about this?

Yes and no. There are actually "Evangelical" Presbyterians. However, they definitely talk about TULIP and give it credence. They, will, however, privately admit that most of this is abstract/academic and they indeed like to focus on Christian living and Christian education. They're not obsessed with trying to determine who the UNchosen are.

-LWT

JWoods

LWT, that was my impression the last time I talked with a mainstream Presby minister. More interested in simple daily living.

XJW4EVR

Leaving,

The basis for what Arminians call Total Depravity is Romans chapter 3. In it, Paul states that "no one seeks after GOd, no not one." It is only after the Holy Spirit moves upon the hearts of some that they are able to see the choice before them. It's a lot like this, a erson can set before a hungry lion a bowl of vegtables and a bowl of meat. The lion has an objective choice, but he can only chose what his nature as a carnivore dictates. Therefore the lion will always chose the meat. Similarly, when sinful man is presented with the objective choice between serving God or serving themselves sinful man will always chose to serve themselves. This fact is made utterly evident in the history of Israel as recorded in the New Testament.

Based on the fact that Calvinists believe that God has to act first on the heart of a sinner before he can chose does not contradict any of those Scriptures. Particularly in the case of the Philippian jailer cited in Acts. The jailer had a dramatic experience that God used to change his heart causing him to ask what was needed in order to be saved.

Your other two Scriptures, if memory serves, deal with people that are already in a saving relationship with Christ. I could be wrong, but I don't have time to verify that at this time, so I'll leave them for now. Anyway it is a great question you ask, and I would recommend Lorraine Boettner's book THe Reformed Doctrine of Predestination for you to read. It is an older book, but is still a staple with in the Calvinistic community as it clearly defines sotriological Calvinism. I would also recommend The Stone Lectures by Abraham Kuyper. In these lectures, Kuyper explains how Calvinism is not just about salvation, but is in actuality a rather strong worldview.

Edited to add: An unfertilized egg is not a person, and therefore would not be subject to hell.

leavingwt

XJW4EVR -- Thank you for that explanation.

Regarding the unfertilized eggs, I think you missed my point. I'm going to Hell because my egg was fertilized. My egg siblings (the eggs inside my mother) did not grow into humans and will simply not exist. They got lucky. The sperm missed them. I would have rather not been born than spend eternity in Hell. No matter how great my 70 years of existence is, eternal non-existence is better than eternal Hell. Do you see what I'm saying?

Perry

There is another way to avoid hell besides the way of cross . Jesus once said, "judge not lest ye be judged" .

Good Luck.

leavingwt

There is another way to avoid hell besides the way of cross . Jesus once said, "judge not lest ye be judged" .

That actually sounds pretty good, Perry. Please tell me more. I'm not in the habit of being judgemental. Is it that simple?

Calvinists: Why I Can't I Choose to be Saved?

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