I and the Father are one. John 10:30.

by dgp 33 Replies latest jw experiences

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  cofty

  Stephen do you really want to get into a debate about singular anarthrous predicate nouns?

  No neither do I.

  It is not a delusion for goodness sake. It is just a fact that there is no unambiguous statement about either the divinity of Jesus or the trinity anywhere in the bible. If it mattered somebody would have said so. Its all opinions and dogma.

  I suspect you know that already but you think if you use words like "delsion" (I think you meant delusion) others will be cowered into letting you off with tenuous arguments.

  Nobody can even define the trinity succinctly without engaging in double-talk.

  Jws teach unadulterated nonsense; christian dogma is more sophisticated but no less fanciful. Stop pretending you are on solid ground.
• 

  Chalam

  Hello cofty,

  I already have provided two unambiguous statements about Jesus being God, but I agree, it is up to us to make opinions about those statements.

  I am surprised that you do not consider that JWs are deluded. Do you still consider the truth™ to be the truth? If not, then surely the only clunclusion is JWs are deluded in believing that the gospel according to the WT?

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  cofty

  Stephen what a bizarre question. I am an atheist you know that already. I consider all belief in the supernatural from gods to homeopathy to be a delusion.

  Do you really want me to judge who is the more deluded?

  My point is that the wt view that the bible does not teach the trinity is at least as defensible as the christian dogma that it does

  I'm sorry but you did not make two unambiguous statements about Jesus being god, you are just very good at ignoring anything said in response
• 

  designs

  Cofty,

  Joseph Campbell called it 'blocked reality'. If something clicks in a persons brain that makes sense to them and their world view only some jolting experience or continued learning and contemplation will alter that perception.

  The Bishops that wrote the Trinity Creed tried to conjoin the personality driven God with the nature God, bright guys (women were excluded from the club) but they made a few Ooppsies. Notice Stephen said that God/Jesus can't be an angel yet he is omnipresent, guess what he is by existence an angel..........plus a Pine tree and a rock and a ______________ add infinitum.

  Number 6 you are number 1
• 

  Chalam

  Cofty, time to agree to disagree! :)

  In closing I agree, as an atheist you have no place in believing Jesus to be God or "a god" as you do not believe any form of God.

  OK, back to the issue of Jesus being one with the Father...

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  cofty

  Loosely translated as "Cofty doesn't believe in god anymore so I can ignore his objections to the way I play fast and loose with facts"

  An informed atheists view of how you use scripture selectively is just as valid as that of a fellow believer. If you had a reasonable question on science you would rightly expect a naturalist to address your objection honestly. If we dismissed it because you did not accept the scientific method you would be right to call "foul".
• 

  xbro

  grow up you lot! we are all on the same side here! this argument smacks of blessed are the cheese makers!

  
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  jdhf

  I agree with xbro....this post has become a little nasty. Cofty, you seem intelligent...why the maligning of Stephen and his valid remarks? If I wanted to know about the bible and God, I would NOT ask a self-professed athiest..I would ask a person who has studied the bible. Nor would I ask a butcher information on astronomy..(assuming he is not a qualified astronomer)! Take it easy all. This is a forum, not a site to attack other users. If you want to get personal, take it to personal messaging please! Thanks
• 

  sacolton

  I like Hebrews 1:8-9.

  Here is Jehovah, the Father, talking about His Son ... and refers to Jesus as God.

  But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

  You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."
• 

  cofty

  I have read over the thread again and I have to say I don't see any personal attacks. I am genuinely sorry if I have given that impression it was not my intention.

  I would appreciate if you would point out where I have "maligned Stephen" or "attacked another user"?

  I am certain I have done no such thing. I pride myself here and at JWS on never attacking the person. This is a discussion forum is it not? Who says pro-trinity opinions get a free pass?

  I am now an atheist that's true. I was a born-in JW and eventually an elder. I became a christian for almost 10 years after leaving the borg and a trinitarian. I do not intend to boast but my knowledge of scripture and of christian theology is quite extensive. In particular I am very familiar with the machinations of the trinity controversy. When I make a point about bible doctrine it is not analogous to the butcher spouting about astronomy. If anybody is being disrespectful here and attacking a person rather than what they have said it is not me is it?

  dgp asked about the significance of John10:30 and I pointed out that it is not a strong piece of evidence in support of the trinity.

  Stephen cited several verses that are commonly used to support the trinity but offered no response to my points other than to refer to them insultingly as JW delusion. My replies have been robust but respectful.

  Too often ex-jws are quick to reject everything the borg teach as a mater of principle. IMO the WT rejection of the trinity is not without good reason. I don't believe I have done anything wrong by pointing that out.