by minimus 64 Replies latest jw friends
On the other hand, Paralipomenon, I wouldn't say children are stimulated from an early age. Rather, they are indoctrinated, and given ideas they can use to argue with others.
My definition of stimulation, for example, would be something like "Have you stopped to think why we have to obey everything the Governing Body says?"
My Ex is an intelligent woman, but she doesn't develop or use her talent to anywhere near its full extent. I've seen this among my ex-in-laws and others in the congregation, too. They use their brains only in strictly limited areas, on the job and within the narow confines of WT teachings. But for any other intellectual pursuit, she has been convinced that she just can't do it and must rely on what the organization says.
To me the WT seems like a grown-ups' junior high: it's not cool to think for yourself or to stand out as being intelligent in those circles. It's reverse snobbery: the less intelligent and independent you pretend to be, the more superior you feel and the better you fit in. In time, that pretense becomes their self-imposed reality. It's been a painful experience having that happen to those I love.
GLT
I knew a brother with an IQ of 170. He had converted from Mormonism to the Witnesses. He had a (dangerous) curiosity about the Greek and other Biblical subjects that the JWs rarely if ever cover. He also had a decent job in the Post Office.
As for me, even though my IQ isn't that high, I can relate the following. In my Appeal Judicial Committee, immediately after the elders told me that I was disfellowshipped for Apostacy, the chairman of my original committee told the Appeal elders that I was a very intelligent. The Appeal chairman responded by saying, "Good, we need more intelligent people in the organization."
My belief is simple, past a certain level of intelligence. Most JW's tend to leave. They will be even more prone to leave if they have a higher level of curiosity than the average JW (I just wanted to get my hands on those old books!) and goodness forbid that you have some integrity mixed in as well. Those who have the curiosity don't even have to be that intelligent since some intelligent people are mentally lazy. And those who have a strong sense of integrity are doomed from a JW perspective. Even with an IQ of 90 their days are counted in such an organization.
villabolo
No, as a matter of fact I remember as a youth with few choices of friends, consciously not using this or that word, because I knew they would not know the meaning. The same with references to books or movies.
I grew up with a guy who was really smart. He went to uni and studied all sorts of things - he knew a lot about different religions (particularly eastern religions), and knew a lot about philosophy. The elders didn't like it. He'd make comments that the book study group would balk at, mostly because they didn't understand, or because they thought he was being a smart-arse. He knew who Tolstoy was for sure! He's an engineer now, I believe, and has thus far remained in.
When we were teens another guy showed up in our congregation studying to be a lawyer. Now he was smart, but he married the dumbest JW girl I've ever met. She's not a JW anymore, but not because of any critical thinking she might have done (or any thinking at all). I heard that he married again, and as far as I know he's still a lawyer, and still a JW.
I posted a similar quote in a different thread recently, again from Tolstoy, but this is the only reason I can think of that they can't (or don't want to) see reality: The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.
I guess the answer to the question is no, I didn't know a lot of them.
minimus -you are so right. However, I am biased. In my opinion if you have above average intelligence - you start questioning. You do not accept that black is white. You challenge the Faithful and Discreet Slave.. Example
True loyal dub - -the FDS says black is white --ooohhhh isnt Jah wonderful.
Above average intelligence - the FDS says black is white - just a second - surely black is black and white is white.
my 2 cents.
Vast majority of dubs by definition are NOT college educated -
First, the most intelligent person in the world can fall for a scam if given bad information. And that is what happened to most intelligent people who were recruited. Also, born-ins had no freedom to refuse to "accept" the cancer.
I have seen one that was very intelligent--and was less than two years old when able to read the Contribution sign. This child had a tendency to explore everything, and I frequently accomodated this by putting little goodies in my suit coat pockets and meeting bag. Also, this child would tend to wander around the auditorium at big boasting sessions--which I also willingly accomodated. (Then someone else forces them to stand still in line, stifling this initiative to learn).
What usually happens to children of this intelligence is they are spanked and beaten excessively. They give a "bad" comment (and these days, any comment that reflect any measure of thinking are "bad") and get told in no uncertain terms that it is not acceptable (usually, severe punishment results). They become afraid to express anything outside what the Establishment tells them, and are usually labelled "bad associations". Hopefully, they all end up going apostate before they reach 21.
Based on the posts, some are confusing university education with intelligence. I know a lot of unintelligent MBAs. I've met very few intelligent JWs and they are extremely liberal, to point that I used to wonder why they were JWs (even when I was a believer).
Also, I knew Illingworth...and yes, he does carry himself as one of much importance and is a very confident speaker.
bttt for sam to find - she is too intelligent to find this thread herself :-))))
Interesting posts. I think the intelligence level has no correlation with being a Witness. In fact, highly intelligent people are more likely to rationalize baseless beliefs through sophisticated mental gymnastics. I know, I was raised by one. The other tactic used by intelligent JWs is a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. They sense something is amiss but won't address it, preferring to focus on other things.
I think someone made a great point about the combination of intelligence and integrity being necessary to force action in some JWs. It's a "theocratically deadly" mixture.
