My Son is studying the lie, this is long but I need help !

by oldflame 87 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Mad Sweeney

  Good advice from many so far. Trying to keep him out of one belief system by convincing him another is correct is unlikely to work.

  If your son is any kind of thinker and lover of freedom, show him how the borg uses cult mind control. You can go with Lifton or even easier, Hassan's B.I.T.E. method. Tell him you're not accusing the JWs of anything special and that ALL CULTS use these methods to one extent to another and NONE of them are healthy.

  If he'd rather discuss doctrine, blow 1914 out of the water using only info from the WT as has been shown here on JWN several times (a search should bring it up easily). Once you've done that you have undermined their divine authority.
• 

  zoiks

  Wow, you definitely have cause for concern! My thoughts are in line with what others have said - I wouldn't try to get into a scriptural battle over such a divisive issue. He is no doubt already being trained to expect "opposition", especially from family.

  Instead, I might perhaps tell him that if he is truly interested in this religion, some research on its history would be prudent. After all, the WTS urges members of other religions to really examine their respective churches. The same level of scrutiny should be given to this religion that claims to have the truth. And if it really is the truth, then its history, teachings, actions, and claim to be god's mouthpiece would all stand up to that scrutiny.

  I wish you the best.
• 

  Mary

  Oh lordie. I know this must be your worst nightmare come true Merrill. Here's my own two cents on what you should do:

  1. Forget debating the Trinity with your son right now. I hate to admit it but this is one of the very few things the Dubs teach that I still subscribe to. While I don't believe the doctrine of the Trinity myself, I fully realize that there are several scriptures that support both sides of the argument and hence it is futile. Christians have been debating it for 2,000 years.

  2. There are so many other doctrines that the Borg teaches that are easily refuted, that I would start with one of them. Do you still have a copy of my project that I sent you? If you do, give it to your son to read. If you don't have a copy, see if Gumby still has a copy. If he doesn't, PM me either on here or Facebook and I'll send you another one.

  Please keep me posted.

  Bloody cult.
• 

  designs

  This sounds more than a little like a set up dialogue.

  If its real just have your son take some comparative religions classes to broaden his horizons.
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  cantleave

  I agree with many of the sentiments above. Don't try fighting on doctrines such as the trinity, not even the witnesses do that these days. Show the JW-cult leaders to be false prophets, decievers and lacking in integrity. As others have said get your son to see that the whole 1914 premise and the subsequent chosing of the FDS in 1919 is seriously flawed. It won't take long for him to see that they have not been chosen as God's spokesman organisation on earth.
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  AuntBee

  Whatever you do,as far as trying to give info, do it quickly. My good friend's daughter is being baptized in March (boyfriend and his mother bringing her in!), and we were AMAZED at how quickly she was indoctrinated against listening to anyone else. They teach them early on that Satan is going to HATE them "sudying the BIble", and will bring fierce opposition (that's you, Dad!) I knew about this, but seeing it played out in real life with an extremely intelligent 18 year old, it was still shocking.
• 

  Mary

  They teach them early on that Satan is going to HATE them "sudying the BIble", and will bring fierce opposition (that's you, Dad!)

  Yep. I think this is what confirms to so many people that JW's 'have the truth'. When family and friends discover that they're studying with them, they (naturally) show alot of concern and will try warning the person of what the Witnesses are really like. Since this is exactly what the Witnesses have predicted, the person studying suddenly thinks "wow! the Witnesses were right! This must be the true religion!" and the rest is history.

  All high control groups use the exact same method. Their leaders know full well that they're scamming potential recruits so they always compare themselves to Jesus and how badly people spoke of him, how they mocked him and his early followers for being "different", and they apply it to themselves. For many unsuspecting souls, this is the quicksand doctrine that eventually nails them if they don't get the full picture early on.
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  WTWizard

  I would ask them to define "a generation". When they try to string two generations together by claiming Jesus "evidently" meant that it is the generation whose lives intersect those who were alive in 1914, ask for them to prove that Jesus actually said this. They can use only the Bible to prove it, and if they start wildly going from chapter to chapter out of context to find proof, they are probably lying. If it could readily be proven, it would either be in Matthew 24:32-34 (or around there) or in one of the parallel Gospels. I have found no evidence, let alone proof, around those Gospels that "a generation" is the group whose lives intersect the lives of those who saw the beginning of the end.

  If even this blatant bullsxxx doesn't wake them up to that they are being taught a lie, nothing will.
• 

  oldflame

  Hello Everyone,

  I first want to say thank you to all who posted here on my thread. I do agree with many of you about arguing the Trinity but actually he brought it to me for me to refute what he was being taught. My son is not a child he is 27 years old, he is also as stubborn as his dad (me) LOL

  He also does not live with me or in my state I'm in california and he is in Texas.

  I could tell by talking to him that yes they have already brain washed him into believing that I and others will attack him for getting involved. At first when I heard of it I was mad, I mean I was really pissed and I wanted to punch something or someone ! So I backed off a bit and I knew I would be hit with questions or rather his positive theory. Well It happened and I fell to pieces not sure what to say or do as I had told him when he was here about the many things they believe and practice . It is my mother who caused all this who is a witness. His mother my ex-wife is enraged over this especially when it was her birthday and he would not recognize it to her, it through her for a loop and she kicked him out of the house.

  I thought about the books out there like CC and Mary's fine work but I am afraid that as in the past they will just end up in the garbage.

  I have to be very careful in showing him the right way away from the wrong way as he is a very whats the word I'm looking for ? he is easily impressionable I guess I should say. I can say this much I can see I got one hell of a fight on my hands now with the WTBS and my son who I love so dearly.

  Oldflame
• 

  nugget

  I agree with many of the posters, if he is 27 and already able to match scripture to scripture he is already fairly deep in. You need an alternative approach. I would go for the cult characteristics rather than doctrine.

  I would say that you appreciate the conversations you have with him about doctrine as they are both interesting and stimulating and one of the things you really enjoy about the visit. Say as last time he introduced the topic of the Trinity could you perhaps pick the next topic for discussion for the next visit? If he agrees chose one topic and present your case clearly, calmly and succinctly. Perhaps 1914 and the generation. Cite historical verifiable sources that disprove dates. Deal only with facts rather than scriptual interpretation since the argument is so much stronger.

  Another tack is to look up sources quoted by the WTBTs and show him what sources actually say. State that as the society has quoted from this source and provided details to source material in their publications then there can be no objection to looking them up. Look up some in advance that have been used inappropriately. If you can demonstrate that the society has been disingenuous and untruthful in some matters it may prompt him to start questioning what he is being taught.

  The secret is to take it slowly and not frighten him off causing him to cut all contact by going in all guns blazing. Restrict your acguments to verifiable facts from respected sources. Keep it friendly and treat him in the same way witnesses treat a return visit. say: "I did enjoy this discussion and the points you made, as I picked this time what do you want to discuss on the next visit? I am really looking forward to our next chat."

  It is hard to let someone down so although he may be disturbed by something you have said, human nature also wants to be agreeable so once he has agreed to a visit he is more likely to follow through. Then each visit have a goal in mind, keep it friendly and arrange next visit at the end.

  I wish you well.