Wanted to share a recent interaction with my folks. I sorta laid it on the table. Yet not entirely.

by miseryloveselders 12 Replies latest jw experiences

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  miseryloveselders

  The thread on Commentary on the Book of James started this experience, thread link here....... I didnt want to hijack that thread

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/188186/1/Commentary-on-the-Letter-of-James

  Mythbuster posted this paragraph from the book, which I shared with my dad. I have the book, so I read it to him over the phone. Told him to track his down. Heres the paragraph though.

  *** cj p. 7 Introduction to The Letter of James ***The real Christian will not do things by rote, and he does not need a detailed code of rules. Neither does he carry out his good works just to please men. So if a person has a genuine, living faith, fine works will reasonably follow, including preaching and teaching the good news of the Kingdom. (Matt. 24:14; 28:19, 20) They will be good works that God will reward, because they are performed out of heart devotion. However, one who tries to gain righteousness through a minutely defined structure of “dos” and “don’ts” will fail. Such “righteousness” is of men and not of God.

  My parents are aware of the reservations I have regarding this organization any more. They know I'm weighing heavily the thought of resigning. I've assured my mother that I'm not leaving the organization, but I'm tired of serving in this capacity. She saw right through that as she stated that me resigning will be "the worst mistake I will have ever made", and "after that it wouldn't be long until you left entirely", and finally, "if you don't want to serve Jehovah, He doesn't make you!" Afterwards, she started calling me Diotrephes. That's just a little background leading up to me sharing this paragraph with my dad.

  His reaction was different after I read him this, yet just as hostile. I told him the "reaching out" to be an Elder or Servant, or anything considered a "privilege" is not scriptural, but rather just more "to-do's" created by men in NY whom I've never met, nor do I believe have my best interests in heart. His response................."Misery, we all have doubts in ourselves. You need to stop doubting yourself. Everybody gets nervous before going in service or on the platform or helping the friends." I responded that this has nothing to do with fear, and everything to do with feeling that I've been duped for the past 10 years or so. I've been doing a whole bunch of unnecessary things (assignments and privileges, which lead to more), and following a bunch of unscriptural rules that I thought made me a True Christian. I genuinely thought I was doing something for God, but the reality of it all actually is I've been following the edicts of several old peculiar men in NY who claim to speak in His behalf. His response........"if you don't want to give Jehovah your all, then you don't have to! Nobody is forcing you, but this will hurt your family.” There's more to this, but I'm at work, and its hard for me to try and recall all of it at this time.

  I have a surreal feeling though, that I'm getting ready to embark on a very cold, lonely road. I'm asking you, is this pretty much how it started for you?

  Another thought, Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap wrote this book, and after my little issue with my parents, it hit me at the time, that you can see the divide at Bethel regarding the different trains of thought between hardliners and reformers. All these years later, the same sentiments are still in the organization under the surface. Crazy right?!?!?

  I've got to get some lunch, I'd appreciate any feedback or experiences you can give.
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  sacolton

  You mean my Saturday morning Kingdom Hall cleaning wasn't pleasing Jehovah?

  Seriously, I think it's disgusting how they combine The Watchtower and Jehovah into a single entity. If a Elder asks you to do something and you refuse ... "Oh, you don't want to please Jehovah?" Nice guilt-trip there. Don't want to go out in service? "Oh? Don't you love Jehovah anymore?" They name drop "Jehovah" into everything they want you to do for them.
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  Sapphy

  "I have a surreal feeling though, that I'm getting ready to embark on a very cold, lonely road. "

  I totally relate, I have that same feeling. I'm in, but wish I was out.

  Good luck to you.
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  wobble

  It is not a cold lonely road out, when you have love and support from the great people here on JWN.

  I was on my way out when I discovered JWD as it was then, and the journey became so much easier, plenty of advice for eveything I encountered.

  I wanted to achieve a fade, with the help of the guys and gals on here I have done that.

  Way, way above being in the Borg. where if you had a doubt as to which way to turn you had to consult an ancient Watchtower written by some old fart who had never been in the real world, or talk to some Elder who knew jack s**t.

  On here people had been through it,knew the pain, knew the mistakes it is possible to make.

  Just walk that road, we will be with you every step of the way.

  It is a warm sunny road, with freedom a short way along it, and a great journey to enjoy from then on.

  Love

  Wobble
• 

  The_Present_Truth

  Hi Misery,

  I can relate to the thoughts you expressed here. My experience was this: The more tasks I took on, the less I was able to actually sit in a meeting and absorb what was being discussed. If I was running the sound box I was focused on the microphones and what was going on with them or song preparation etc. I wasn't really focused on the lesson being discussed.

  There seems to be a free pass if you're putting in certain kinds of "work service". I usually gave 2-3 talks per week either on the School or Service meeting. Add up prep time and then time spent during the meeting thinking about the delivery of them and delivering them and you can see how one's focus is centered on the task or work at hand vs. the entire menu of the meeting.

  KH builds ...enjoyable for sure. I enjoyed everyone and there was a "credit" for time spent there towards my hours as a pioneer. I forget now what it was. (Been a while.) If I missed a meeting to build a KH no problem. If I had been missing meetings to build a habitat for humanity house or some other community service like working at a local food bank - I guarantee they wouldn't have let that slide.

  Bethel was the same way. I spent a month out there on temp work. As long as you showed up on top for morning worship wearing a suit and got to work on time, and did a proper "hospital corner" when you made your bed in the morning, it was easy to disappear in the sea of brothers and sisters out there. No one had a clue whether the temps were making the meetings, going in service, or going down to China Town. What would get noticed is if you weren't showing up for work. You were there to work and don't forget it.

  The WTBTS and JW's are a "task oriented" /"works based" organization. Now I have no problem with work or works.Both have merit as long as they're kept in perspective. Like I said, I enjoyed much of what I was assigned to do at that time in my life. Here's the problem, what good was I doing? Do you know that I have had more meaningful opportunities to "witness" since I left the "organization"?

  Time is our most valuable asset. It is finite. It's the only thing we can't buy more of or replace once it's gone. So ask yourself, "How do I want to spend my time in this life?"

  I'm not sure if you have a family or not, but if you do, wouldn't your time be better spent being a good dad or husband and looking after the needs of your household vs. spending 10-15 hours a week preparing talks or sitting on committees for the "organization" and it's agenda? If you have surplus time left after taking care of family needs, probably the next best thing to spend it on is the ministry (if we really wanted to present a contradictory argument to your dad about how best to spend your time). But I don't mean going out with the goal of putting literature in the hands of people. I'm talking about having conversations with people you meet in everyday life, getting to know them, what's good or bad in their life, sharing some hope with them from the scriptures out of genuine concern, becoming the person in your community that people look to for unbiased comfort and truth. I've found that every person I've ever met has their own story, and for the most part they want to tell it. So let them. One of my CO's said once that "People need to know how much you care before they care how much you know." He was one of the few who had a clue. Most are dismissive about what the householder or fellow member of the congregation may say, quick to quote a scripture or article as to what they need to "do". Sometimes people just need us to listen.

  Do you realize that about the only thing an individual can't do in the "organization" if they're not an elder is participate in judicial committees? As far as looking after our brothers and strengthening them or participating in the any facet of the ministry - that could all be done as a publisher. A regular pioneer in my time was just a publisher who spent 90 hours each month in the field service. I think now it's like 70?

  You don't have to have a title to be the guy that people need. I'm pretty sure Jehovah would agree with that. That raod that you're getting ready to embark on isn't cold and it certainly doesn't have to be lonely. The notion of lonely stems from that dang seed they plant in our heads that we'll lose everyone in our life because they'll tell them they can't talk to us etc. Guess what? People are human, they'll talk to you at some point. If they don't let them own that not you. They're schmucks if that's the choice they make. I don't have a ton of friendships outside my family today just because of the obligations it can present on my time. Plenty of offers though to go hunting, fishing, travelling etc. I just make it a point now to do everything I can with my wife. What spare time I have after that is available for others.

  You're the man. You'll be fine.

  The_Present_Truth
• 

  cry

  What a nice post Wobble - very calming and encouraging, couldn't have put it better myself!
• 

  ziddina

  "I have a surreal feeling though, that I'm getting ready to embark on a very cold, lonely road..."

  Doesn't have to be... Wobble hit the nail on the head: "On here people had been through it,knew the pain, knew the mistakes it is possible to make. Just walk that road, we will be with you every step of the way. It is a warm sunny road, with freedom a short way along it, and a great journey to enjoy from then on...."

  Present Truth's words, "having conversations with people you meet in everyday life, getting to know them, what's good or bad in their life, sharing some hope with them from the scriptures out of genuine concern, becoming the person in your community that people look to for unbiased comfort and truth..." pretty much covers my advice - but I'm about to give it, anyway...

  Build an escape route - or a fine boat to float you away... Make friends with your neighbors; get to know your co-workers better; start making real friendships with [GASP!] "worldly" people... As many others have posted, the "worldly" people generally don't have an 'agenda' involved with friendship - they aren't going to attempt to judge your spirituality, whether you're "spiritually strong" enough to associate safely with, how many hours you're putting into 'service' each month, whether you're an elder, M/S, or just pass the microphone around on Sunday...

  And as Wobble and many others said, most everyone here on the board is here for you. Zid

  P.S. I actually adopted a surrogate mother... Which reminds me; I owe her several phone calls!
• 

  miseryloveselders

  Sacolton-yes, I hate the whole organization=Jehovah thought process. Its emotional extortion. There is no debate with these people.

  Sapphy- Thank you, I hope the best for you too!

  Wobble- Thanks for your thoughts. Its crazy how I'm on a message board looking for other people's thoughts! I always viewed people on message boards as kooky LOL, now look at me. Can't believe this. I've been lurking here a good 2-3 years now, and posting for about six months or so. Your right, its a tremendous help to read other people's thoughts and experiences. I'm a fairly busy person between work, and congregational matters, so I don't always have the time to come here, but when I do, I enjoy every second of it. Like wow, you mean there are other people out there too, questioning this JW thing.

  The Elders I serve with, are actually ok guys, and most of them really do have life experiences. I truly do respect and love them, at least most of them anyway. However, I can't share my thoughts too much in depth with them, because we all know where that leads. I just have to keep my mouth shut. My parents will keep their mouth shut due to our family always being a "what goes on in the family, stays in the family" group, so I'm not too much worried about them ratting me out. Plus at this age in their lives, they need me. I have siblings too, who will help out, but at this time I'm in the best position to help them with everything and anything. But Wobble, again thank you.

  The Present Truth- you figured it out way before I ever could have. Its just a bunch of things to do with this organization. Its never ending. The more you do, the more they want you to do. At a certain point, you stop and say to yourself, "wait a minute." Some of it is truly enjoyable, but then again there are days at my "day job" when I can say I had an exceptionally good day or week for that matter. But whats it all worth in the end? Nothing. I've noticed that when I run into other Religious types, I've found that the ones who say Jesus name several times throughout the course of a conversation seem to be the only truly happy people I've ever come across as far as Christian groups are concerned. Granted some of them are nuts, and thats evident by the glazed Risperdal Induced look in their eyes. But many others truly are mentally stable, and happy to boot. The only time I can say I've felt the same in this organization, is when I've helped people either with a Bible dealing with some emotional issue, or when doing things for the older ones in the congregation.

  I was in FS during the summer one day, and while working a block, I saw a group of University students doing volunteer cleanup, and I thought to myself for a moment, "thats what I need to be doing." Whether it be helping homeless, or disadvantaged. I'm fascinated with all the people going to Haiti to help out. They're doing it because they want to, not being coerced or having a heavy guilt trip laid upon them. I never realized until stepping out of the JW way of thinking that there is a ton of good that we can choose to do following Christ's example. It all gives glory to Jah. It doesnt always have to be done on Saturday mornings, Sunday mornings, and Thursday evenings either. Thanks Present Truth.

  Ziddina- Thanks for your input. As a teenager I did the "double life" thing for a while, and even briefly as a young adult, and I have to say, I have some good memories that didnt all involve sin. As an adult JW, I can't say I look forward to anything anymore. Its all just misery, the whole thing. Feel as if I'm going to explode someday. Just stand up in the middle of a public talk, and just yell, convulse, foam at the mouth, curse, etc.. A few months ago, at my job, we had an intern that came through, and we didnt have the space to hire him at the time, so we took him out to eat after work. Guess what night it was? A meeting night. I didnt have any parts or anything that really needed addressed at the KH, so I blew the meeting off. And it felt SO GOOD!!! My boss, whom I think I have a crush on, told me she was so surprised to see me out with them as I never go to anything they do after work. I told her I'm trying to break out of being so reserved socially, and that I enjoyed myself. She told me she wished I hadnt been so quiet. I reassured her that I had a good time being with them. I didnt tell her, but the reality is, it felt good, yet strange being with all these "worldy" people at a bar/resteraunt when I should have been at the meeting. Yet, the people I was with, didnt curse, didnt speak anything immorral but instead about their kids, or classes, all of them are church going people, a couple of them do volunteer work, etc.. And here I was feeling guilty for spending too much time with them. It's really bizarre isnt it? Zidinna, thanks.

  thanks for all your input, I'm at work, so its hard for me respond immediately, but thanks for all your input. Thanks to everyone on this board in general. I feel like I'm giving shout outs, like I'm a rapper or something. too many people to thank.
• 

  ziddina

  MiseryLovesElders: "Its all just misery, the whole thing. Feel as if I'm going to explode someday. Just stand up in the middle of a public talk, and just yell, convulse, foam at the mouth, curse, etc.."

  Yoiks, MiserylovesElders, I am sure sorry to hear that!!

  Of course, I had the same feelings while I was still 'in'... But here's a comment I posted - a little off-topic - on the thread titled "On the fence"... It apparently didn't apply - or help - that poster very much, but perhaps you would find this PROPOSED attitude-shift useful:

  "Long time ago I interviewed for a job via a rather strange psychological test. Or an employment aptitude test with a rather strange psychological question on it: 'Which would you rather be? A fireman, or a spy?'

  Hrumph. I... was absolutely repulsed - at the time - by the thought of being a spy. The idea of having to hide who I really was, to be subtle, to be coy, to keep my mouth shut... Waaaay beyond my capabilities...

  Looking back on it, I regret my answer. Being a spy, though not "glamorous" as portrayed in the James Bond movies, has a certain appeal now. I wish I had some of the characteristics of a successful spy... the abilities to be subtle, to be sly, to allow others to talk freely about what THEY think instead of hammering them with MY opinions, to allow them to draw their own conclusions about me [hopefully that I was a "good little Jehovah's Witness", instead of an 'apostate'], the ability to 'blend', the ability to move smoothly about within an 'enemy' organization without raising suspicions, to create a pleasant - though thoroughly false - impression, to gain trust by the appearance of graceful acceptance without actually compromising my internal individuality to that which I hated...

  Could be fun, with the right attitude...."

  End Quote.

  Might I politely and humbly suggest that you have more fun, with a slight attitude adjustment??? If you must still remain within the WTBTS for various personal reasons, why not have FUN with it?? When I was a JW, it was glaringly obvious that FUN and a true sense of humor is woefully lacking in the typical JW's life - of course it would be; humor often gives one a new perspective on things, and that would be dangerous to the WTBTS' control over people...

  But, to get back to my point... Have FUN with it! By being a superficially 'good' JW, and then writing biting satire of the WTBTS' behavior. By watching out for - and catching - all the idiocy in the (B)organization. [Whoever first came up with that - love it!] By being a sort-of 'spy' - for yourself - without the complications that usually exist for REAL spies - and let me point out that, in spite of the stresses and idiocy of being in the WTBTS when you DON'T agree at heart with their edicts, that is FAR less stressful than being a spy in, say, Afghanistan or Iraq...

  Not to set you off on a guilt trip here... Just sayin' you can have FUN without worrying about the REALLY heavy stuff... You're just dealing with a buncha pompous, self-righteous assholes here, not fanatics with machine guns... Uhhh, dug myself into a hole again...

  Have FUN with it... Relax, see the idiocy, and realize that you're no longer really a PART of it...

  Sure hope this helps...????? Zid
• 

  Wasanelder Once

  If you maintain the party line of being unduly suspiscious of "Worldly People" it can be lonely. You have to be discerning but make friends, don't be too shy. You'll see that nonwitnesses are not all out to eat your young. Good luck. W.Once