Jehovah's Witnesses and Calvinistic Predestination

by AllTimeJeff 69 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • designs

    You see Stephen, you are just like the JWs, shunning, thanks for revealing to all my original proposition of you Fundamentalists.. you are a Cult with all of the similarities in practice and cognitive dissonance we had to break free from as Witnesses.

    It took some time but I know you'd show the true colors of your Cult of the Trinity

    Good Job

  • Lieu

    Whatever the case of theology, I know the JWs got that crazy invisible return and 'end times' insanity from William Miller (Millerites).


    It is clear to me that these kind of theological discussions had no part of Jesus' ministry.

    Jesus had many theological discussions. Times in which He taught His disciples, and times when He rebuked the religious leaders of the day.

    Does God, through Jesus, reach the most oppressed of humanity--uneducated women in burdened lives who have child after child in poverty-?

    He has, and he still does. Read about Empart Ministries.

    What I want to know is this: in whatever misery of life, do I have value to God at least?

    Yes, you have value to God. You have so much value that God sent His son to live the life you could not live, and to die the death you should have died.

    Don't tell the poor that if God loved you then you wouldn't be poor.

    That is a damnable teaching! Abrham Lincoln said, "God must love the poor. Why else would He have made so many of them?

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    I missed this thread when it began but I find it incredibly fascinating to read this evening. Great info everyone.

    One of my wierd interests is how discussions flow and this thread is a great example of how the original point of the original poster is sometimes quickly and completely abandoned by apparrent unanimous consent in favor of a side discussion that grows and dominates the rest of the thread.

    The original point was that Dubs claim not to believe in predestination and yet in practice they actually often DO. And yet we end up with an excellent discussion on predestination as it relates to Calvinism.

    I think that's one of the coolest things about Internet message board discussions.

  • freeflyingfaerie

    OMG! This thread is a trip!

    It stresses me personally to think of a big guy in the sky having his piercing eyes watching my every move so as to decide my destiny ( or has it already been all laid out?) ...somehow i feel just fine not having that burden to carry. The burden of approval.

    I like to shrink it down to we don't know so much, and I'm so very fine with that.

    Maybe my post is simplistic, but I think we can all get our panties in a pucker (or start wars) and forget to actually enjoy the simple pleasure in life


    maybe we were all predestined to really just love ourselves, and love others, period. ( but there was a malfunction and our brains grew bigger than our hearts)


    if there is a big guy in the sky, he's got some esplaining to do, because his kids are always seeming to be at each other's throats, and it's usually about HIM!! Not a very nice daddy!

  • freeflyingfaerie

    what i mean about 'at each others throats' is all the atrocities and sufferings over the ages that were caused by religions

  • Rufus
    what i mean about 'at each others throats' is all the atrocities and sufferings over the ages that were caused by religions

    Suffering is not the exclusive byproduct of religion. One need only look to the Stalinist purges for evidence of that. T ens of millions were executed or imprisoned in labor/death camps as part of a radical program of atheism. That's vastly more than were killed during all the crusades, inquisitions, and witch trials combined.

    No, religion is not the problem. It seems that regardless of the cause, whether sacred or secular, human beings are capable of unspeakable atrocities. There is something flawed with human nature. And that, more or less, is what religion attempts to address.


  • freeflyingfaerie

    Rufus, I realize that religion is not the single source of the world's problems. But that fact doesn't make it any more attractive.

    It saddens me to think of how we humans can become so indoctrinated and forget our basic need, Love. Just in my observations and experiences, people can really get caught up in promoting their own brand of God. And if their own brand is so shiny and clean, then others must therefore be wrong . Maybe its a generalization, but in man's quest to understand it all, organized religion seems to have just complicated things. And nobody seems to me to have all the answers.

  • not a captive
    not a captive


    It is great to see that Jesus is preached in India. And I am pleased that predestination is not on the menu.

    Empart ministries does not participate in the distinction between Arminius and Calvin when they take the gospel around. Jesus taught about his Father but he did not parse these matters for his church or else Empart would make it one of their articles of faith. They do not. And good for them.

    Jesus founded his called out ones on this "Thou art the Christ, the son of the living God." No more, no less.

    To preserve unity, Empart does not quibble about non-essentials. There are a lot. Much of this is the theology I referred to earlier.

    In understanding what happened to me in churches and in the JW Organization it has been useful for me to make a rough distinction between "taking in knowledge of the only true God" (theology) and "knowing the you, the true God"(experience).

    As I read the gospels, I see that Jesus gave me simple, powerful direction. The doctrines of men have only served to confuse and diminish its clarity.

    "Theology" is the construction of a catechism(The jailer in the book of Acts could not have had time enough to absorb Calvin and Arminius's fine distinctions on predestination by daybreak).That didn't arrive until 15 years following Jesus' death, so I am told. If you know anything contrary to this then I would be interested to hear of it.

    Until then I stand by my aversion to a useless theology that denies some of us recognition as Christians though we lay claim to Christ's promises. If I am puzzled and unconvinced by the clever doctrines of men am I any less a Christian?


  • Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu
    Yesu Kristo Bwana Wangu

    Best thread I have read so far

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