A honest question to all creationists

by bohm 71 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • bohm

    Okay, nice to see some more traffic on this topic!

    HappyGuy: I didnt imply anything by 'proud' except that i didnt feel being called an evolutionist was an insult. it was a joke. laugh!
    Regarding the tk-layer, the eye, the map and all - dont really have a lot to add which is on topic, but i feel you dont have access to all the info, particulary with regard to the tk layer (try to see what isotopes are in that layer and where they are also found). try to google this stuff. knowing both perspective wont hurt.

    quietlyleaving: i see your point, but many think the bible is compatible with evolution/no ark, and i feel those people allow themselves to be led more by evidence (or as an id advocate may say: popular oppinion). At any rate, it is not impossible to imagine a bible which supports both viewpoints, to some it allready exist. basically you just need to throw out genesis and make some statements more vague :-)

  • bohm

    HappyGuy: i have to bite. you do know that the concept of 'species' is not a 100% set-in-stones definition like 'numbers' or 'an atom', rather there are a lot of different definitions. read the wikipedia article for more information.

  • TD


    your example is not an example of Evolution as I understand its proponents to mean it.

    Thankyou HappyGuy. That was my point exactly. Those that advocate I.D. often misunderstand where those that accept evolution are coming from. The former camp seems to look at things globally, while the latter tend to hold a reductionist view starting with the basic building block that can be proven and working their way up into ideas more theoretical in nature.

    Speciation is the basic building block of evolution. Most critics of evolution don't even bother to argue this point anymore. For example, Michael Denton, author of the book, Evolution A Theory In Crises freely acknowledges the reality of speciation and allows that Darwin had stated at least a "Partial truth."

    Hybridization is one mechanism of speciation --one that is by far the easiest for us to observe given our short life-spans. When the hybrid breeds true in the wild and is not swallowed up by the parent populations in a few generations, it is considered a bona fide species.

    Denton's real disagreement (And I suspect yours as well) is whether or not the same forces that produce new species could have been responsible for the entire manifold diversity of life we see today.

    An unproven "given" being propounded by people who blindly accept the dogma of the church of progress.

    Please. These are cutting edge researchers in their fields --people like Dr. Charles Butterworth and Robert Wallce who are currently DNA sequencing entire families of desert plants. You can argue that they're wrong, but to pass judgment on their scientific integrity smacks of the "Smug, know it all, holier than thou" attitude that bothered you just an hour ago. Regardless of whether they are right or wrong, they do have reasons for what they believe.

  • HappyGuy


    The KT layer has a high concentration of iridium and other platinum family metals which may indicate an extraterrestial event.

    The KT layer also has numerous small dark glassy spehericals which are formed from violent explosions and molten rock which indicate either volcanic activity on an unthinkable scale or an extraterriestial event.

    The KT layer also consists of large numbers of shocked quartz grains which can indicate a nuclear blast or a massive volcanic blast.

    Is this what you were referring to?

  • bohm

    HG: indeed it was!

  • HappyGuy
    HappyGuy: i have to bite. you do know that the concept of 'species' is not a 100% set-in-stones definition like 'numbers' or 'an atom', rather there are a lot of different definitions. read the wikipedia article for more information.


    Really? Why don't you tell me that the big round yellow thing in the sky is called the sun? Why do you insult me by assuming that I am some kind of retard?

    I'm sorry that I thought you wanted to have a rational discussion of this topic.

    I'm out.

  • bohm

    HappyGuy: I was NOT trying to insult you. my sincere appolegies. A lot of people are not aware of these things - i was not just a few months ago. I had a point but i doubt it matters now. I was just trying to find common ground so i didnt talk below your level or above.

    and for the record i only knew about iridium isotopes in the TK-layer. the other stuff is new to me. that was what i was implying with my response to that post.

  • leec

    on 2nd thought, I'm deleting my post with the intention of getting into this discussion at some other time when I have the energy for it

  • besty
    Perhaps this event was an extinction level event, only humans living at the time predicted the event and evacuated the earth, so humans were not made extinct. And the Noah's ark story is really the story of one evacuation ark which was allowed to return to earth to keep life on earth going and the majority of the evacuees went elsewhere in the galaxy. Of course the 'ark' would have had to have been made of many vessels, perhaps a mother ship and smaller craft. So the UFOs are the descendents of our human ancestors

    is this like scientology?

  • In

    I think I'd still wonder that evolution had created so much detailed, awesome diversity... and I would still be suspicious on the accuracy of carbon 14 dating.

    As for Noah... lots of myths contain a global deluge story... I always thought that was interesting.

    I tend to think things that appear in multiple myth systems are very interesting, such as a virgin having a boy child who becomes a powerful God... that appears in Egyptian and Mesopotamian myth, among others.

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