Did the GB/WT said that the “Great Crowd” is going to heaven? May 1, 2002 WT - Question From Readers.

by tjlibre 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • tjlibre

    In the April 15, 2010 WT study article that contains the new interpretation on the “generation” quagmire...hurgmm..hurgmm …teaching. There is a box titled “Are you keeping up with increased light?”

    One particular article sparked my interest, the one titled: In which courtyard does the great crowd serve? (Rev. 7:15)—May 1, 2002, pages 30-31.

    I read the article last night and drawn my own conclusion. I’m also doing some additional research on this topic. Let’s discuss this. It’ll be interesting to see if we can come up to the same conclusion as to what is the GB trying to say.

    Could someone please post the article here on this thread? I don’t have the WT’s CD-ROM in English in my work computer.



  • leavingwt

    For more information on this topic, please read this booklet. . .

    Where is the Great Crowd Serving God?

    by Jon Mitchell, former secretary to the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, 32 pages, paperback
    A discussion of Revelation 7:9-17. considered against a backdrop of events at the Watch Tower headquarters in 1980.


  • yknot

    Here is the QFR

    *** w02 5/1 pp. 30-31 Questions From Readers ***
    Questions From Readers

    When John saw the “great crowd” rendering sacred service in Jehovah’s temple, in which part of the temple were they doing this?—Revelation 7:9-15.

    It is reasonable to say that the great crowd worships Jehovah in one of the earthly courtyards of his great spiritual temple, specifically the one that corresponds with the outer courtyard of Solomon’s temple.

    In times past, it has been said that the great crowd is in a spiritual equivalent, or an antitype, of the Court of the Gentiles that existed in Jesus’ day. However, further research has revealed at least five reasons why that is not so. First, not all features of Herod’s temple have an antitype in Jehovah’s great spiritual temple. For example, Herod’s temple had a Court of the Women and a Court of Israel. Both men and women could enter the Court of the Women, but only men were allowed into the Court of Israel. In the earthly courtyards of Jehovah’s great spiritual temple, men and women are not separated in their worship. (Galatians 3:28, 29) Hence, there is no equivalent of the Court of the Women and the Court of Israel in the spiritual temple.

    Second, there was no Court of the Gentiles in the divinely provided architectural plans of Solomon’s temple or Ezekiel’s visionary temple; nor was there one in the temple rebuilt by Zerubbabel. Hence, there is no reason to suggest that a Court of the Gentiles needs to play a part in Jehovah’s great spiritual temple arrangement for worship, especially when the following point is considered.

    Third, the Court of the Gentiles was built by the Edomite King Herod to glorify himself and to curry favor with Rome. Herod set about renovating Zerubbabel’s temple perhaps in 18 or 17 B.C.E. The Anchor Bible Dictionary explains: “The classical tastes of the imperial power to the West [Rome] . . . mandated a temple larger than those of comparable eastern cities.” However, the dimensions of the temple proper were already established. The dictionary explains: “While the Temple itself would have to have the same dimensions as its predecessors [Solomon’s and Zerubbabel’s], the Temple Mount was not restricted in its potential size.” Hence, Herod expanded the temple area by adding on what in modern times has been called the Court of the Gentiles. Why would a construction with such a background have an antitype in Jehovah’s spiritual temple arrangement?

    Fourth, almost anyone—the blind, the lame, and uncircumcised Gentiles—could enter the Court of the Gentiles. (Matthew 21:14, 15) True, the court served a purpose for many uncircumcised Gentiles who wished to make offerings to God. And it was there that Jesus sometimes addressed the crowds and twice expelled the money changers and merchants, saying that they had dishonored the house of his Father. (Matthew 21:12, 13; John 2:14-16) Still, The Jewish Encyclopedia says: “This outer court was, strictly speaking, not a part of the Temple. Its soil was not sacred, and it might be entered by any one.”

    Fifth, the Greek word (hi·e·ron’) translated “temple” that is used with reference to the Court of the Gentiles “refers to the entire complex, rather than specifically to the Temple building itself,” says A Handbook on the Gospel of Matthew, by Barclay M. Newman and Philip C. Stine. In contrast, the Greek word (na·os’) translated “temple” in John’s vision of the great crowd is more specific. In the context of the Jerusalem temple, it usually refers to the Holy of Holies, the temple building, or the temple precincts. It is sometimes rendered “sanctuary.”—Matthew 27:5, 51; Luke 1:9, 21; John 2:20.

    Members of the great crowd exercise faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. They are spiritually clean, having “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” Hence, they are declared righteous with a view to becoming friends of God and of surviving the great tribulation. (James 2:23, 25) In many ways, they are like proselytes in Israel who submitted to the Law covenant and worshiped along with the Israelites.
    Of course, those proselytes did not serve in the inner courtyard, where the priests performed their duties. And members of the great crowd are not in the inner courtyard of Jehovah’s great spiritual temple, which courtyard represents the condition of perfect, righteous human sonship of the members of Jehovah’s “holy priesthood” while they are on earth. (1 Peter 2:5) But as the heavenly elder said to John, the great crowd really is in the temple, not outside the temple area in a kind of spiritual Court of the Gentiles. What a privilege that is! And how it highlights the need for each one to maintain spiritual and moral purity at all times!

  • Mall Cop
    Mall Cop

    Leaving wt. Good link, read his stuff. The Watchtower must of read it too. The courtyard is in heaven. Great crowd, other sheep, rank and file??? The scriptures teach that all who believe in Jesus go to heaven.


  • leavingwt
    The scriptures teach that all who believe in Jesus go to heaven.

    WT needed to create two classes of Christians, as a control mechanism. The Leaders and the Slaves.

    John 10:16 has been understood for hundreds of years as referring to Gentiles.

    WT theology is so laughable, it's necessary to understand Thought Reform to see how any of us ever believed it.

  • Mall Cop
    Mall Cop

    I use the scriptures for the believers, because I respect their right to believe that the Bible is God's Word.

    I don't believe this. I will never disrespect what believers and those who claim that they have had and have proof and personal experiences to support their belief systems.


  • quietlyleaving

    I don't get it - somebody please explain

  • VoidEater

    ^ A lot of words for the WTS to say, "Yeah, you caught us in a contradiction, but we still say the Great Crowd can't get into Heaven."

  • sd-7

    What I notice from this article is: (1) they provide no solid evidence to support their statement that the 'great crowd' is serving in an earthly temple courtyard. They merely assert it. (2) They acknowledge that the word na-os refers first to the Holy of Holies--which would hardly be possible for the great crowd to occupy if they were on earth. It's the sanctuary, and wherever else na-os appears in Revelation, I'll bet ya dollars to donuts they refer to it as the sanctuary. (3) They refer to themselves as "perfect, righteous human sonship...while on earth." Are they suggesting that they are perfect right now? Are they suggesting therefore that Jesus Christ forgives them of their sins first, now, while holding our sins in abeyance until the end of a thousand years? That's an interesting statement to make. The good thing about statements like this is that Jesus said he didn't come to save righteous people. He came to save sinners. So if they're not sinners as of this moment, Jesus didn't come to save them.

    Woe to those who are saying darkness is light and that we need to keep up with it.


  • BluesBrother

    A quick look up leads me to say that :

    1} they are certainly not implying that the G Crowd go to Heaven (in their teaching)

    2} they make a difference between the Outer Courtyard of Solomon's Temple which was restricted to Jews and proselyte believers, and the Court of the Gentiles of Herod's Temple that was open to any Tom, Dick or Harry to pass through.

    3} So they maintain that "it is reasonable to say" that the G Crowd's situation is better typified by the Outer Courtyard of Solomon's Temple..

    Of course it is all conjecture anyway

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