Doesn't the WTS say that blood can't carry oxygen for the first 24 hours after a transfusion?

by Olin Moyles Ghost 35 Replies latest watchtower medical

• 

  justpassing

  Lucky Mom.

  One other thing to mention is that the majority of transfusions given in surgery, usually between 1-2 units, has been found to be inappropriate. A study showed that in two large groups of patients, the blood either had no benefit at all (wasting blood supply), or resulted in negitive outcomes (heart attack, stroke, lung injury, infection and kidney failure, and death).

  Hemorrhaging/trauma is a different story, this appears to be the only group of patients to actually benefit from blood. It's this type of thing we need to keep plenty of fresh stock for, and try to use alternatives and better blood conservation methods for other patient groups. That said, I've recently heard that even hem/trauma can now be treated with alternative methods, although, training up medical professionals in all these methods takes time and money.

  Group Questions Appropriateness of Most Blood Transfusions

  http://www.medpagetoday.com/HospitalBasedMedicine/Hospitalists/13869

  Mike.
• 

  MsDucky

  I've given patients blood transfusions and seen them "pink" right up immediately; and they felt better too. My husband didn't pink right up (He's Black.); but he felt better soon after receiving a unit or two or blood. Most patients O2 saturation depends on how well they can oxygenate blood. Meaning if they have ventilation or pulmonary problems (they can't breath well due to bad lungs, poor heart condition, and such) they may need supplemental oxygen. I'm not a doctor. I just followed doctors orders back about three years ago.

  I'm going to have to bone-up on blood transfusions again. I guess new stuff is coming out.

  justpassing, I gotta wonder about your sources.

  P.S. You could have a normal CBC; but if you can't breathe, it don't mean diddly! Also, if you just got one red blood cell that's fully oxygenated (hyperbole), this won't be of much help to you either.
• 

  MsDucky

  Types of transfusions

  http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec14/ch171/ch171c.html
• 

  Gerard

  From 1977.....

  *** bq p. 53 Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Question of Blood ***

  Will a transfusion immediately enhance the blood’s oxygen-carrying capacity?

  Many persons believe that it will, but a recent editorial in Anaesthesia made this significant point: “It is worth remembering also that the haemoglobin of stored, citrated red cells is not fully available for the transfer of oxygen to the tissues for some 24 hours after transfusion . . . [...]

  I worked in a blood bank during my younger years, and I am also a cell biologist, and i certify that this statement by the WT is absolute bullshit. You all can check that online. Hypothetically, the only limiting factor would be low temperature, but the blood is warmed before transfusion. The standard anticoagulant is citrate and it has no effect whatsoever on gas transfer.
• 

  Gerard

  One other thing to mention is that the majority of transfusions given in surgery, usually between 1-2 units, has been found to be inappropriate. A study showed that in two large groups of patients, the blood either had no benefit at all (wasting blood supply), or resulted in negitive outcomes (heart attack, stroke, lung injury, infection and kidney failure, and death). Hemorrhaging/trauma is a different story, this appears to be the only group of patients to actually benefit from blood. [...] --justpassing

  The above statement is also bullshit. Nobody gives a packed cell transfusion just for fun. Whether the hemorrhage was caused by surgery, disease or trauma is irrelevant. All three causes of (extreme) hemorrhage benefit from the transfusion if the arterial oxigen drops below certain threshold.

  If the patient develops immunity for certain blood antigens that put him at risk for a second transfusion is another story, yet vastly more manageable than hypoxia (severe low blood oxigen).
• 

  Gerard

  He said banked blood is usually blue. If you take some of the blood and shake it in a bottle it turns red from the oxygen in the air.

  That guy told you bullshit.The color of blood (red blood cells / hemoglobin) is red.

  Low oxygen content makes them dark red; normal oxygen content makes them bright red. They never turn blue under any circumstance. Sometimes anatomy and physiology books use blue color as a schematic image to ilustrate the concept of blood carrying low oxygen content, that may be his confusion.

  Cheers
• 

  nugget

  At the end of it all the witness debate is that the Bible says abstain from blood so whether it is an effective oxygen carrier is irrelevant and witnesses should not try to back up their "spiritual stand" with a pseudo scientific one. Telling people that blood is no good is to try to get approval for a fanatical stand. They should be honest with their flock.

  They also quote on one of the videos that several thousand people die each year due to errors relating to blood transfusions I can't remember the exact figure but it was jaw dropping. I am not sure how accurate it is. I remember telling a study that this figure was so much greater than all the witnesses who died refusing a transfusion and yet the medics criticise witnesses for not undergoing a dangerous procedure. It was probably total rubbish too.
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  TD

  Gerard: The 1977 quote appears to me to be a garbled reference to disassociation angle of 2,3-DPG. The issue was the ability to release oxygen. Of course, blood is often used very soon after donation anymore so this is not necessarily the problem it is typically blown into by JW's.

  JustPassing: I think it's worthy of note that exsanguination is still only one facet of transfusion. There are many, many other scenarios. Lasting remissions are extremely rare among Witness leukemia patients for example. Ideopathic thrombocytopenic purpura can be caused by something as mundane as adverse reaction to medication, and platelets are still forbidden.
• 

  Gerard

  When blood is stored over time, 2,3-DPG begins to lose its function. [...] Blood today is usually not stored for more than a day or two either. --TD

  Hello, TD, I agree with your high quality post and I am glad someone wants to venture into molecular biology to explain the limits of transfusion. However, these two sentences above need of some correction or updating. Research indicated some time ago that the rapid fall in 2,3-DPG activity can be delayed significantly by cooling whole blood units rapidly after bleeding. Then, packed blood cells are stored in a fridge (4 degrees Celsius) for 35 days. After that, the 2,3-DPG enzyme activity is so low that oxigen transfer in vivo is not suficient. Besides, after 35 days, other molecular changes affect the red cells and they begin to lyse (die).

  Check this for other blood component storage limits:

  http://www.muktafoundation.org/content/view/53/42/

  Cheers!
• 

  undercover

  At the end of it all the witness debate is that the Bible says abstain from blood so whether it is an effective oxygen carrier is irrelevant and witnesses should not try to back up their "spiritual stand" with a pseudo scientific one. Telling people that blood is no good is to try to get approval for a fanatical stand. They should be honest with their flock.

  Yes, the end all, be all to the argument for a JW is that the "bible says to abstain from blood"...period. That should be their only argument...period. All the technical mumbo jumbo is irrelevant if God says 'don't do it'.

  The fact that the Society ues all these smoke and mirrors shows that they can't, by the Bible alone, defend their 'no blood' policy. If they were truly honest with their flock, they'd allow people to decide for themselves what is best for them medically.