Should I believe in the Trinity?!

by TTWSYF 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Chalam

  Where's Stephen at or Perry? Although I can't remember if Perry believes in the Trinity, I know Stephen does though. A thread with Trinity in the title, he's usually here faster than Reggie Bush.

  Looks like I'm late!

  Welcome TTWSYF :)

  OK, the Trinity, the WT attack it from almost every side.

  1. They say Jesus is "a god", not God.

  2. They say the Holy Spirit is an impersonal "active force", not a person.

  3. Obviously, they leave the Father alone, don't mess with the Daddy.

  To answer if you believe in the Trinity you need to gain a view on points 1. & 2.

  Obviously the place to do that is the bible. I am often avoiding the well trodden paths, John 1:1, Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14 because JWs are likely already have preconceived ideas about them. Also, the NWT has tampered with some of these key verses, usually to demote Jesus.

  This is a good place IMHO

  Romans 8:9-10 (New International Version)

  9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.

  And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

  10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

  • Verse 9, the Holy Spirit is called the "Spirit of God" and lives in the believer.
  • The Holy Spirit is called the "Spirit of Christ" and anyone who does not have Him is not a believer.
  • Verse 10, now the Holy Spirit is called literally "Christ in you" and repeats the same statement as verse 9, being dead to sin and alive in the Spirit.

  So, the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ and Christ lives in the believer. Draw you own conclusions.

  I found this recently in the ESV Study Bible, which is excellent in many respects. I think it puts the case for the Trinity very well.

  The Trinity. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Trinity is unbiblical because the word is not in the Bible and because the Bible emphasizes that there is one God. Biblically, while it is true that there is only one God (Isa. 44:6; 45:18; 46:9; John 5:44; 1 Cor. 8:4;James 2:19), it is also true that three persons are called God in Scripture: the Father (1 Pet. 1:2), Jesus (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8), and the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3–4). Each of these three possesses the attributes of deity—including omnipresence (Ps. 139:7; Jer. 23:23–24;Matt. 28:20), omniscience (Ps. 147:5; John 16:30; 1 Cor. 2:10–11), omnipotence (Jer. 32:17; John 2:1–11; Rom. 15:19), and eternality (Ps. 90:2; Heb. 9:14; Rev. 22:13). Still further, each of the three is involved in doing the works of deity—such as creating the universe: the Father (Gen. 1:1; Ps. 102:25), the Son (John 1:3; Col. 1:16; Heb. 1:2), and the Holy Spirit (Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4; Ps. 104:30). The Bible indicates that there is three-in-oneness in the godhead (Matt. 28:19; cf. 2 Cor. 13:14). Thus doctrinal support for the Trinity is compellingly strong.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  PSacramento

  I was thinking about getting the ESV and the ESV study bible sounds very good.
• 

  Chalam

  Hello PS,

  I still like the NIV but the ESV is a tighter translation. Net result is the NIV is slightly more immediate and the ESV a little more powerful.

  The ESV is the cross reference section is excellent. Try if for yourself online for free English Standard Version

  Main site here ESV.org: Official Website of the English Standard Version Bible

  The ESV Study Bible is excellent too. I bought one for my wife and I used the online one (you get an access code with the physical bible).

  There is a sample on here Home | ESV Study Bible | Crossway

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  yadda yadda 2

  Don't listen to Chalam's nonsense. Reject it out of hand as the absurd false dogma it is, like hundreds of other false religious creeds, lies and myths perpetuated by hundreds of religions.
• 

  agonus

  yadda yadda - whoa man, take it easy, it's a matter of faith. Don't fall into the JW trap of calling things "true" or "false" when there's no way in hell to prove either POV.

  Personally, I believe there are strong arguments both pro and con. I think the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (or Father, Mother, and Child, or whichever variant you prefer) are in unity, certainly, so I guess they could be considered "triune", but the Trinity in the classical sense (which I can't really seem to pin down a definite definition for anyway) seems to be stretching it a bit. The important thing is not to declare sincere Christians as either "true" or "false" depending on their feelings about the Trinity. Both JWs and mainliners are guilty of this offense.
• 

  leec

  trinity shiminity. I have bigger fry to fish.
• 

  agonus

  Bigger Fry to Fish...

  Heh heh...

  Sounds like a quote from Futurama!
• 

  Chalam

  H agonus,

  I think the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (or Father, Mother, and Child, or whichever variant you prefer) are in unity, certainly, so I guess they could be considered "triune", but the Trinity in the classical sense (which I can't really seem to pin down a definite definition for anyway) seems to be stretching it a bit.

  OK, there is one God, none like Him.

  Isaiah 46:9 (New International Version)

  9 Remember the former things, those of long ago;
  I am God, and there is no other;
  I am God, and there is none like me.

  So who is Jesus?

  Hebrews 1:3 (New International Version)

  3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

  Philippians 2:6 (New International Version)

  6 Who, being in very nature God,
  did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

  For me, it is simple, Jesus is God, not "a god" or anything else.

  Some go for a modal God, switching modes. Other go for multiple gods.

  Personally I see the Trinity from cover to cover.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  designs

  The Jews, who wrote the Book in question, would disagree.....but that never stopped people from imaging seeing faces in clouds
• 

  PSacramento

  designs,

  Christanity makes the bold claims that the Jews were wrong in their view of God and what he wanted in the Old Coveant, hence the need for a new covenant, making the old one "obsolete".

  If you are NOT a christian, all that is irrelevant.