I just got in from seeing Avatar and my mom had called. I called her back. She wanted to tell me that there was a documentary on a local station about jws. She said that it presented the jw beliefs accurately but made them seem like they were crazy for believing it and were a cult. Her next statement was, "But it still gave a good witness because it accurately presented our beliefs." I wanted to say that no, anyone who watched that would not be drawn it this religion because they would think it's a cult. But I kept my mouth shut. I couldn't stay on the phone with her because my cell gets bad reception but I was wondering if I could use this in some way to get her to talk about cults and mind control. She already knows that I am reading Combatting Cult Mind Control. When she saw it on my night stand she asked if the witnesses were in it and I told her no. Then she said that she was surprised because most people "in the world" would put us in a book like that. Then she said that a cult is someone who follows man and that wouldn't include jws. Anyways, she's a pretty hard core jw and maybe I should keep my mouth shut. But since she watched this documentary tonight I was wondering if I should call her tomorrow and ask her what reasons the program gave that made jws a cult? After she answers she'll want to know why I asked and I could go into what I found in Steven Hassan's book. Of coarse, I wouldn't get argumentative or start accusing the jws of being a cult. I would only discuss what I found in the book. What do ya think? Would that be a good what to go about it? or should I leave it alone?
Advise about my mom.
by doublelife 12 Replies latest jw friends
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ShirleyW
Well, first of all, I think you should share what channel the program was aired on, such as PBS, or what have you, so we can all look out for the show and watch so we can all add our views on the show . . . right . . . ??
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doublelife
The show has already aired but I do believe it was PBS.
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flipper
DOUBLELIFE- Unless you've finished reading Steve Hassan's book and are familiar with how to talk to a fanatic cult person , i.e. your mother , using Hassan's methods to talk to her- I would advise NOT mentioning Jehovah's Witness topics at present as it may trigger her " JW cult protection mode " and just cause her to argue more with you trying to prove you wrong , or she will waste time trying to prove herself right . If her brick wall goes up it can be difficult to penetrate their brains with more information. So just try staying on family topics and appeal to her " authentic " personality with love - instead of appealing to her "cult " personality. If you avoid triggering her defense mode- then you will get further with her in time- in my opinion.
It's like the old expression you don't want to " win a battle " but " lose the bigger war " so to speak just to make a point. Take it slow. Good luck. PM me if you have any further questions. Be happy to share more ideas
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readyornot
I was dying to talk to any jw about the things I was learning while reading Steve Hassan's books. So I would test his theories on my Mom. She's a die hard jw - regular pioneer - missed my first child's birth to attend a meeting - kind of lady. I'd ask harmless questions about the latest convention or 'new light' being shared. The conversations would start out with my 'real' Mom giving her opinion, but as soon as I pushed it a bit with my questions, it was like I could see the switch flick in her. She'd puff out her chest, her eyes would kinda bulge and out would come one of those, "Jehovah will reveal in due time" comments and she was done. It was fascinating.
I slip in comments now and again to try and get her to think about stuff, but I've given up trying to save my mother, and keep my mouth shut regarding her beliefs. I try to smoother her with kindness, even when she uses the cruel, culty tactics of fear, guilt and shame. It's completely thrown her off and it's funny to watch the confusion on her face.
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Out at Last!
She brought it up, take a shot. Like you said, ask her what the show said made them a cult, then ask her what she thinks about that information. Drop hints and hope she picks up on them. You might want to share Hassan's BITE model with her to identify a cult. If an organization wants to control: Behavior, Information, Thought, Emotions they are a cult, let her draw her own conclusions and let the doubts begin.
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yknot
.......or maybe let some time go by.......
And than call the WTS 'the Society' a bunch of times to bait her into correcting you to call it the 'Organization'....
Than say "Why mom", she'll state the WTS's said so....... and you can reply "so some 'men' decided to change the lingo and now you and 7 million other people follow their direction?" She'll agree and than you can bring up her comments on cults following men. She'll make a dismissive or snide comment but you can bring up vaccinations, transplants, fractions, holidays, men's facial hair.....sky's the limit!
She will bring up appointment.......and you will sigh and say" mom, yes that is what a group of men say, but you and I both know you have never taken the time to research the accuracy of those claims"........pause a bit more and taunt her a bit with ...."and you never will because you know it probably won't stand up to the examination"
Excuse yourself saying "BTW..... practically all the past WTS material is available for free on public domain sites"
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Heaven
I use situations that make my Father uncomfortable, like the pedophilia that went on in his previous congregation. I don't push a lot, but when he brings up the subject of becoming a JW, I let him know what I know. I can see the wheels turning.
readyornot said: I try to smoother her with kindness, even when she uses the cruel, culty tactics of fear, guilt and shame. It's completely thrown her off and it's funny to watch the confusion on her face.
This is also an excellent, principled way to deal with victims of mind control. You actually show them that what they are learning is false. I love it! Way to go, readyornot.
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blondie
Was it this film "Knocking" done by a man whose mother is a jw (I don't know if he is an ex-jw or never baptized person)
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changeling
I like the fact that she brough it up, and that she admited the program called JW's a cult.
This can open some doors for you buit I would proceed with caution.
First of all, I would give it some time. Tomorrow sounds too soon. Secondly, I would use her (the WT's) definition of a cult as a springboard. You can acknowledge that this is one of several markers to identify a cult, but that most cults do not have every single marker.
You could then quote a reputable and non-apostate source to show what those markers are. I would leave her with the question, "I wonder why the WT never mentions any of these other markers???" And then change the subject...
:)