Thanks for posting that scripture...and breaking it down for me. I guess i still have some JW 'thinking' going on here and there and I end up confusing myself when it comes to commandments/suggestions/conscience matters/free will - UGH!!!!!!! No wonder everyone in there is on autopilot.
Women as second class citizens
by iMARX 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Finally-Free
People, both male and female, have their strengths and weaknesses. Among my (ex)wife's strengths were cooking and cleaning. In these areas she was lord and master, and I was happy to stay out of her way as she took the lead in these necessary pursuits.
W
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WalkTall
The issue of women is something that always bothered me. I was uncomfortable with thinking that my creator did not value me as much as a man. It never made sense to me and it is the issue that made it easier for me to open the door to questioning the Bible as being an inspired book.
I always hated the illustration that the WT uses when talking about marriage and how a ship can only have one captain. Well, what if the captain is a woman? What if she is the one with the knowledge of how to run the ship? Should we let some clueless man run the ship aground simply because he has a penis? It is beyond ridiculous.
Has anyone ever read Mary Russell's The Twain. It's an interesting read. I found it years ago on the Internet. Even if you are to believe the whole Adam and Eve story to be true (which I don't) she makes a point that I found interesting. The scripture (Gen 3:16) where God tells Eve that her husband would dominate her did not happen until after they had sinned. So it was more a punishment of sorts, that this is what would happen now that they were imperfect, rather than a command. He was acknowledging that the natural balance that he created was now going to be upset. Even looking at it from that aspect, you can tell it is not something that God wanted or promoted.
So now I have come to realize that the Bible was indeed written by ancient Mediterranean men, for men, because women were not allowed to be educated and were mostly illiterate. So, naturally, they put themselves in charge and called it God's will. Take a look at modern conservative Afghanistan and we can see how this happened.
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WTWizard
This is totally uncalled for--calling women "weaker vessels". That implies that they are nothing more than "vessesl", or containers that contain a package of service. Totally insulting to imply that women are nothing more than containers.
As for being weaker, it comes with a price. As a group, women are physically weaker than men (though this is by no means absolute). They also tend to be smaller in stature and weight (again, this is not absolute). However, women are just as capable of doing mental tasks as men, and that includes leading. Just because you cannot lift 96 pounds as easily as men can doesn't mean you should not be allowed to be respected--or to take leadership roles (or self-leadership). It also doesn't mean everything you do should be what men tell you to do. That is simply not fair.
It also means men should pick up the slack where women are weaker, doing the heavy work. Women should also pick up the slack where men are lacking, usually in fine detail. However, neither should force the other into slavery--women are conscious human beings, not vessels.
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VIII
WTWizard--
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PSacramento
I know that many have a "hard on" for some of the things that have been attributed to Paul, namely the issues with homosexuality and a woman's role.
But many seem to focus on one things that Paul says in one place, perhaps not even said by him, and overlook all the OTHER thinsg he said and how he exalted many women and even maned some by name.
I know the WT tries to ignore those parts, as a patriarchal cult it makes sense to do that, but in reading ALL the Paul wrote we do get a different picture.
Just as Joseph showed above.
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aSphereisnotaCircle
I'll let him to beat the shit out of me. I'll try to get 2 witnessess to the abuse to get a spiritual divorce."
Uh, sorry, this is not grounds for divorce in JW land!
Your suppose to take the beating and "win him over without a word"
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iMARX
These are all really interesting posts thanks a lot for commenting so quickly :)
On the illustrations point, I hate how they use one illustration for one issue and use the same one (or very similar one) for the opposite situation.
I can't think right now of which one I'm thinking of but one that always sticks in my mind is the "the truth is like a box of chocolates, just because you don't like the Turkish Delight in a box, it doesn't mean you'd throw away the whole box! Well, the issue around (pick a controversial issue i.e. abstaining from blood) is just like the Turkish Delight. Eat around it and then eventually you'll eat the Turkish Delight/accept that abstaining from blood is also okay.
Then they'll say that just because a 2 hour long film has the word "shit" in it doesn't mean you should watch all of it but mute it at that point, you shouldn't watch ANY of it! LOL
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dig692
The scripture (Gen 3:16) where God tells Eve that her husband would dominate her did not happen until after they had sinned. So it was more a punishment of sorts, that this is what would happen now that they were imperfect, rather than a command. He was acknowledging that the natural balance that he created was now going to be upset. Even looking at it from that aspect, you can tell it is not something that God wanted or promoted.
That is really interesting, and makes a lot of sense. If you look at the creation account you can even see that the Bible does agree with that.
Gen 1:27, 28 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." - God created "man"(both male and female). God said "man" (both male and female) would have dominion over every living thing upon the earth. God DID NOT SAY that the male would have dominion over the female and every living thing upon the earth.
Gen 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh". - One flesh, implying they will be united, equal, of the same mind, etc. Not that one would be higher that the other.
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carpediem
Yes this was definitely an area I had a problem with too. I hated it when women were given kitchen duties like making tea, coffee etc. A job which men were never asked to do. My old cong recently had a refurb and a note came round asking 'sisters' to bake a cake. So what's up then, cant men bleeding bake......................oh I forgot they are too busy being family heads for us wimpy weak women!