Concept of There Being A God

by Undecided 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • Undecided

    Hi All,

    Is it possible for the human mind to really understand what God is?

    Think about all those trillions of centries that God was alone, with no need for a language, as there were no objects to name, no one to converse with, nothing to do. There were no subjects to hate and kill, no one to love and bless, no Satan opposer to battle, sort of like being dead.

    This is a concept the human brain can't deal with, having no beginning is impossible to imagine. We have no idea of what The God is, or was or will be. If you continually dwell on this you will go nuts. I guess this is why humans have made so many different Gods that they can relate with.

    Any thoughts on this, you apostate, rebellious, horde? :)

  • Sky

    I agree that one would indeed gop insane if forced to contemplate this for any extended amount of time.
    Just look at the zombies sitting int he KH....:)
    I at this point, am undecided as to how I feel about God, and his existance, or non-existance, whichever the case may be.
    I see some things, and think, certainly, he must exist. Then I turn around and see something else, and think, surely he doesnt.
    One of my non jw friends once said that he thought GOd was bored, and so he created Adam and Eve with the plan that they would sin. He never intended for the whole earth, and its population to be perfect. He thinks they were set up for the fall...
    But, obviously, if God does exist, he is perfect, and thus would never get bored, imho....
    maybe thats why death is so scary, only then will we find out the truth. I hated living my life according to "What IF???"
    So, here I am, living my life, still not knowing...argh.
    It is indeed a frustrating and annoying concept to try to figure out.

  • indireneed

    I think that is an interesting question and one I have thought about quite a bit. After seeing how destructive religion has been and is (although I don't mean to say that nothing good comes out of it), it made me wonder what this God is really like.

    Speaking from logic, my thought is that if there is a God then he necessarily cannot be defined. It is impossible to use human emotions and feelings to describe a God who is completely foreign.

    The JWs and most other religions feel we can predict what he wants or what he will do because we know things about him - i.e. love, justice, etc. But these are just constructs made by humans to make God fit to them.

    We're like a bunch of blind men trying to argue what a horse is and isn't. It's just impossible.

    Where does that leave us? Unfortunately, the construction of a God gives some people the ability to control others. Does God approve? Who knows, I haven't heard him speak lately and don't expect too. If God was willing to let us go awry, why would he feel it necessary to come back and reward or punish us. With all this talk of eternity, some people forget to live their short life here for life itself, not for the future.

  • ashitaka

    You know, that's a question that always bothered me. I used to ask my dad, 'well, is there a mommy and daddy jehovah?'

    My father explained it as, Jehovah was always around, from eternity into the past to eternity in the future. (I just don't get that, and my Dad said we weren't supposed to).

    Ok, so if Jehovah's been around forever, why create people? My Dad used to say because he wanted someone to love.

    That's why I'm beginning to become an atheist. Why would an omnipotent God NEED anyone? God is so humanized, and demonized in the bible, that I can only begin to conclude that God is a clever fiction of man. There seems to be no other explanation.


  • Mindchild
    Mindchild got me thinking about something. Did you know that if you were to immerse yourself in a tank of warm water that is the same temperature as your skin, and shut out all sounds and light, that in a few minutes you would be having full blown hullicinations? That of course is what we call sensory deprivation.

    Now consider how much more difficult it would be for a lifeform that is supposedly the most complex and advanced thinking, feeling, caring, loving, divinity be locked in the same condition...with absolute nothingness for uncountless trillions upon trillions of years! I really think this is a more difficult question to answer than where God came from.

    There would be no interaction with anything. Nothing to show love for or care about. To survive in this state, a lifeform COULDN'T have any feelings. What would any of us do if we were sentenced our entire lifetime in solitary confinement without a single sound, sight, feeling, or interaction with another being. We would be dead that is what, or completely stark raving mad.

    If you are completely self contained...nothing can happen. You can have no ART, for this requires the interaction of others, you can have no music (at least as we know it), no dialog, zippo. Maybe you could play with mathematics for a few million years and come up with what digit of pi you end up with after all that time...woohie sounds like fun to me! Thus, I think it impossible for such an existence to last in uncountless time. I also think our universe may have evolved some very incredibly advanced lifeforms (probably machines) that we could consider God-like because of their development to our own, but they didn't create the universe or us.

    But regardless, the idea of what is God-damned to me, would be the idea of spending eternity all dressed up and nowhere to go.


  • roybatty

    I haven’t struggled too much with the idea of whether or not there is a God but have instead debated in my mind if there exists an Almighty, omnipotent Being. Just looking around and wondering how such a Being could allow such wickedness to go on for so long (and never receiving a good answer even when I was a JW) has lead me to believe that there is a god who wants good to happen but also an equally powerful being who wants evil to prevail. I’ve heard all the “well God allows evil to exist because….blah blah blah..” and I have even given public talks on the issue of “universal sovereignty.” I personally can’t imagine any intelligent being having a hard time accepting God’s answer to Satan in which He would have said “Look Satan, you’re wrong and now I’m going to take you out for screwing with my kids.” If God was so concerned about what angels and humans would think, then why doesn’t He care enough to explain why billions of people have suffered and died throughout history. And not just died but I mean suffered big time. I just can’t picture a loving God watching 6-million Jews killed by the Nazis. I can’t imagine an all powerful God sitting by while millions of Cambodians are slaughtered. Why would a loving God sit by and watch Stalin kill his own people?
    Believing that God isn’t all powerful has actually made me more aware that each of us need to do something to fight the evils in the world. That God isn’t able to fix them alone. Instead, he uses us just as the being that wants evil to prevail uses his tools.
    Just my 2 cents.

  • gumby

    Ashitaka said:That's why I'm beginning to become an atheist. Why would an omnipotent God NEED anyone?
    Who said he NEEDED anything? The bible dosen't really mention WHY he chose to make us.
    Also people seem to think God did NOTHING in a vast universe for eternity's past.......say's who?
    How do we know what he did billions of years in the past.
    We haven't a clue
    Try to remember not to use old Jw veiws on these matters ( I catch myself doing that too sometimes)
    There IS a God...this just didn't happen for no reason.

  • tyydyy

    Good point. Those of us who were raised in the "truth" have a hard time changing our concept of God. You say there is a God because this didn't happen for no reason but is it not possible that there is more than one "god"? Is it possible that this world was created by many creatures that got things started or are using this as a long term experiement? What proof do we have of a singular god? None. The only evidence of any kind of god is the fact that we exist. As far as the paranormal or supernatural phenomenon......I won't deny what someone else says they experienced but at the very least the vast array of experiences tell us that there would be more than one "god". If you gathered all the anecdotal evidence of supernatural experiences you would find some good, some bad, some peaceful, some horrifying, some physical, some visual, some audible, some prophetic, some telling history, some good advice, some very bad advice...etc...etc...etc. Do you see a pattern here? Does it seem that any one personality has control of the situation. If you believe in the god of the Bible then you have to believe that he just changes his personality whenever he gets a whim.
    So far noone has shown me reason to believe that "God", as we have known him, exists or cares about what is going on. The firm believers say that you cannot truly get evidence of god until you truly believe in god. I believe that is a load of defacation.

    Why are we here? There could be millions of reasons why. If we consider that we may not be signifigant to whoever or whatever started this universe then we could come up with literally countless scenarios. Try it. It can make your mind explode!


  • TR

    I think it's absurd to believe that there is a God that has existed with no beginning.


    "YK is his name, false prophecy is his game"

  • ashitaka

    TR just said what I was about to say.

    Those were just sidepoints I was mentioning. I'm personally just having a hard time reconciling a God now. Can't seem to understand where one would come from. What's His story? From forever to forver? Makes no sense to me. Everything that ever was had a beginning.

    OK. Let's say I get past that. I can't conceive of a God actually caring about humans when he has quasars, and the infinite beauties of the universe to worry about. We are so small, so completly worthless in the scheme of things; I just can't see a God, having the power to make us not only perfect, but LIKE angels, not give it to us simply because he wants to prove a point. Are we pets then?

    Also, my father explained Jehovah 'needing' humans. That's why I mentioned it in my last post.


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