by solafide 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I think you will find that most academics are very interested in talking to people who disagree with them, as long as they have something substantial to say.
What does Comfort bring to the table? He doesn't even know that bananas are as much a product of human ingenuity as they are natural! Amusing that he now claims his banana video was a 'parody', presumably a parody of brain dead creationists?
Because they pray to Mary which the bible strictly tells you not to pray to anyone but God.
The Bible says no one is to be worshipped but God. We do not worship Mary, or any of the saints, or any angel.
BTS
I think that some people confuse praying to someone as the same as worshiping.
I don't think anyone should be prayed to, except for Jesus and God though.
I certainly disagree with the whole "Mary mother of God" thing.
Solafide......
According to the WTS Jesus returned 1874 1914 and upon inspection of all the world's religions found only the WTS 'doing so' .....
How do they 'know'..... they claim that WWI was indicative of Satan being 'cast from heaven and confined to Earth'.... as for the rest it is just the repetitious conjecture within the WTS publications and from the podium.
The WTS says they are the only ones who are preaching the 'kingdom message' and that kingdom message is that Jesus returned 1914, selected the WTS, Armageddon is imminent and only those associating with the JW will be saved through Armageddon........ Once Armageddon ends Jesus and the 144,000 will rule over the earth for 1000 years of peace while Satan is imprisoned. After the 1000 years Satan is unleashed and he wages war again this time to be cast into the lake of fire....... then the final resurrection occurs and the scrolls are read......and Jehovah himself brings down a new Jerusalem and resides with his people
Regarding forums....... The WTS has pointedly said not to be on such forums in fact to be cautious of any website not under the direct supervision of the WTS. Those you encounter on the web are 'weak' or 'rebellious' JWs. .... and yes this forum association can lead to Disfellowshipping.......
Further the number one way to make a JW's eyes glaze over is to cite the RCC as the 'one true' religion. Seriously the anti-RCC sentiment while lessened over the years is still very very very strong amongst adherents...... The second 'shut down' discussion would be trinity....... it just equates to a total disconnect.
Perhaps you should stick around this forum and learn more about those you who desire to target for debate or conversion.
I do not believe the RCC is the one true faith because their doctrines can easily be misproven by simple Biblical research and they accept other religions.
I do however believe the JW ARE God's people, at least in the sense of a wayward nation that eventually becomes or has become the False Prophet and is eventually destroyed (like the Jewish nation was God's people and were also destroyed for their disobediance). The RCC doesn't get involved in prophecy, whereas the JW's known for it.
The prophecies that JW's direct towards Christendom are actually directed towards themselves because like the Jewish nation-state, they believe themselves to be God's only true people and so actually line themselves up for destruction according to Revelation.
Even though I consider them to be God's wayward people, I left before the call goes out to "flee to the mountains" as Jesus said.
I recently considered going thru the RCIA, to convert to Catholicism, as I see it as the lesser of two evils. Even though the RCC has committed atrocities, their admitting their errors and at least trying to make up for them speaks highly of them. The JW's have no such scruples. I've even considered trying to enter the Priesthood, to further my own education of Christianity's past and to help others in a way I could have never accomplished as a JW. The RCC has charities that to me do the very thing Jesus said was more important than preaching, namely to care for widows and fatherless boys.
Off Topic:
I have thought of going back to help others leave and am still on the fence regarding this. Because of my mindset I will never pretend to believe what the WTS teaches , just to get reinstated. I want others to know I am Apostate (like Jesus and the Apostles were when in came to Judaism) and will therefore come to me and ask questions.
To my knowledge there currently exists no rule to keep people from attending the meetings. According to the WTS own words, all meetings are open to the public, so being part of said public, I could attend if I wanted. I would give encouragment to the other disfellowshipped ones who feel abandoned by their peers and comfort them with the hope of approval by God, despite the WTS ' proclamation that Disfellowshipped ones have no hope at Armageddon. I would point out the 3 laws necessary for salvation. Love Yahweh your God with everything you possess, Love your neighbor as yourself and have faith in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus and all that pertains to it. Field Service, commenting at meetings, being "approved" by imperfect men who cannot read hearts as God can means absolutely nothing.
I would remind them that they dedicated themselves to God and Jesus and not to some man-made organization who consistently utters false prophecy and who treats the flock the same as the Pharisees in Jesus' time.
edited for spelling mistakes
Catholic Catechism #969 "Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."
Clearly the Catholic Church has lifted titles for the Holy Spirit and applied them to Mary. The title Mediatrix is the feminized version of Jesus' title as Mediator. The RCC makes Mary a co-mediator.
Catholic Catechism # 882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful. For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."
The Pope sees himself as the visible head of God' Kingdom on earth as opposed to the invisible authority of Jesus Christ. However, early Christians walked by faith, not by sight (2 Cor. 5:7). Additionally, one of the Pope's titles is the Vicar of Christ. The word vicar comes from the Latin word vicarius meaning substitution. The on-line version of the Pocket Catholic Dictionary defines the Vicar of Christ as: "The Pope, visible head of the Church on earth, acting for and in the place of Christ". However, this is in serious conflict with scripture. Can there be two heads on one body?
... Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. - Ephesians 5:23
1994 Catholic Catechism Paragraph # 82 - As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the Holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence.
While the Roman Catholic Church seems content with merely sharing Christ's Mediatorship, the Watchtower Corporation has completely severed Christ's Head as Mediator from off the body of the congregation. The February 15, 1991 issue of the Watchtower, pgs. 15-20 paragraph 11; makes this announcement:
11 Nevertheless, in a preliminary way, the great crowd have already "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Revelation 7:14) Christ does not act as Mediator of the new covenant toward them, yet they benefit from this covenant through the work of God's Kingdom.
Similar to the Catholic Church, the Watchtower also applies exclusive titles of Jesus to their organization. Members are socialized to refer to their organization as "The Truth". This is a title taken directly from Jesus Christ as the Word of God:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14: 6
Also like the Catholic Church which demands its traditions and unique teachings be equal to that of the bible, the Watchtower views its teachings as part of the bible with the same authority:
Watchtower December 15 2008, pg 28 - Our coming to know "the truth" - the entire body of Christian teachings that has become part of the Bible - and adhering to it are essential for our salvation.
Simply put, the Catholic Church, the Watchtower Corporation, and others have made the deadly mistake that other foolish people have made; they've added their traditions, good works, and another mediator to "Jesus the author and finisher of our faith". (Heb. 12:2) Because of this, they have nullified God's offer of salvation for some. (Mark 7:13) There is only one way into God's favor:
I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold , but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber...Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. - Jn.10: 1-7
Faith in Christ ALONE is the only way folks. Don't get this wrong twice.
Thank you all for your comments. There's a lot of good things I'm learning, and everyone has a great sense of humor. I'll stay on this forum and keep learning and discussing more.
Rhode Island,
instead of hashing out a bunch of videos where atheists make uninformed Christains look bad, come to my blog and discuss morality with me at the top of my blog which is entitled 'why naturalistic atheists can't account for morality'! www.restorethegospel.wordpress.com
Also, here is when I called into the Atheist Experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3H5U9g_SuY
You know what Tracey and Matt ended up saying morality was based on??? That the human species happens to survive! LOL. If you come to my blog I'll show you why this doesn't work, along with every other reason atheists give. Lastly, "slavery" in the Bible was only prescriptive for the civilization (nation) of Israel under the old covenant. Further, if you study it you'll find that it wasn't slavery at all (or how black were in slavery) but was voluntary serventhood and allowed societies which were poor to be able to survive at that time. The Bible is not a guide to sociology. In terms of ultimate sociology, Christ will soon return and kill all the bad guys, then restore other bad guys into good guys by grace, and rule eternally. That's the Bible's sociological fix for sinners, Christ.
ynot,
Some JW came to my house last year. I started talking with them and I think they were taken off guard by my readiness to give a Christain defense. Then they sent their big dawgs on me and invited an elder and his wife to come over after a week passed. We did talk about the Trinity for a while and he totally dodged my points and had really bad arguments. He was very polite. I've asked them to come over again and to bring a WT Bible and KIT with them (so I can show them from the Greek that Jesus is said to be God) but they just referred me to their websites. Dangit! Next time I want to get a bucket of cold water ready for them and splash it on them when i'm talking so it will hopefully shock them out of their glazed eyed syndrome.
Trinity is a difficult and unsettled debate.......sure 381 establishes it fully within the RCC but Arianism lived on and one man's heresy is another man's truth. The witnesses agree that Jesus is divine as his father is Jehovah but they stop at co-equal and co-eternal.
In the end believing Athanasius over Arius or vice versa is not the basis of salvation and for the scriptures you can show reasoning Trinty a seasoned Arian can purpose as many too......and while making for a lively discussion, neither come away converted.
If your desire is to 'sway' them from believing the WTS is the 'troof' you will need to address trinity much later and accept that the individual may never profess it....for instance I remain an Arian and I accept that trinity is possible but since both are interpretations I will not truly know for sure until Jesus returns or he has the sackcloth witnesses profess it (should the sackcloth be literal instead of symbolic)....try for the time being on focusing on what publication they come in hand with.....whether that is the current WT/Awake or 'Bible Teach' as a source of topical conversation that allows for 'seeds' to be planted, because indoctrination is often undone not by a big presentation but the careful eroding over a long period of time. Make your home one where a JW knows they can get their time in while discussing things.
Since you are RCC perhaps consider contacting Tom Cabeen on what he has found to be most enlightening when witnessing to the witnesses from a RCC perspective.
In case you didn't download them before here is a link to Nov and Dec (3rd post) 'Our Kingdom Ministry'.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/184113/1/Nov-2009-KM-PDF-available-now
Here is a link to the JW conversion book 'What Does the Bible Really Teach' known as the "Bible Teach" in JW vernacular
http://www.4shared.com/file/61585821/2da3a9aa/2005-WDTBRT-PDF1.html
Here is a link where you can download the Watchtower CD (2008) which carries numerous WT publications and is searchable.
http://watchtowerlibrary.blogspot.com/2009/10/watchtower-library-2008-english.html
The WTs will starting in Dec be available on PDF at www.jw.org.
There are also many older non-CD publication to be found on the internet....
www. archive.org is a great source as is http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm. Piratebay also carries the older books and magazines, our Chasson has a nice site tooo... here is his thread to his many many scans! http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/128918/1/Consolation-on-Demand
Best Wishes in awakening those in your area.
Because they regard the Pope a one to listen to,Also they worship Mary, also saints
In all my years of being a RC I never "worshipped Mary or the saints", nor did I see any other Catholics do so. That misconception really is grating. Both are held in high esteem by Catholicism but they aren't worshipped . As far as the Pope goes, most Catholics follow their conscience first and don't automatically follow the Pope. Listen to him? Sure, just as other faiths listen to their leaders, but then they exercise thinking and personal conscience.
I saw his stuff with Thunderf00t and thought he did poorly,
Not to derail the thread, but Thunderf00t's dismantling of venomfangx was a sight to behold.
