1984 And The Watchtower

by Bangalore 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  dgp

  Cold Steel, they may not have the same resources the Party had in 1984, but their mindset is just the same.

  I have the impression that we have a troll here. For someone who bothered to read Bangalore's post and actually took the time to write something, you are either in absolute ignorance of the ways of the organization, or you want to pick up a fight. I won't do as you seem to want. I will use argumentation. If you're a troll or an active Jehovah's witness who is trying to use "theocratic warfare", well, the more, the merrier.

  You wrote:

  It doesn't have it's own police force, it doesn't have the ability to enforce any of its laws and edicts nor does it claim any inspiration of God. So what that there's a little grooming advice? So what that it sounds as though it were written for a low-grade idiot? These people have magazines with space that have to be filled up.

  The organization does not have a Police force like a government would. But it does have groups of elders who DO enforce their own "laws and edicts". I wonder if you have taken the time to read the site. It's full of people who were submitted to "the laws and edicts" of the organization, as in "disfellowshipped". People are disfellowshipped in what the organization itself calls "Judiciary committees". Maybe the organization does not claim to be inspired by God, in the sense that it claims to be "GOD'S organization", and claims to be led by God himself. One of the many ways in which Crisis of Conscience is important lies in the fact that one of the men who ruled the organization tells it like it is: no God, only a group of guys making decisions like any other Board would, only this time over very important matters, such as, for example, people taking a blood transfusion.

  Jehovah's witnesses are not "morons" or "low-grade idiots". They have been led to believe in something that I consider to be a lie. Many former ex-JW's think the organization is a lie, too. The witnesses aren't simply told how to dress. They are told even how much time they should devote to working, and how they should be doing it.

  I see you believe that it's always the people who are to blame for what the leaders do. Since we're talking about 1984, and its relation to Socialism, can you tell me why the hell the Chinese don't overthrow their government? North-Koreans? Cubans? Why is it that the Iranians don' t overthrown their government? Why is is that so many Moslem women consent to their daughters's genitalia being mutilated? Is it because they give power to their rulers, and they don't seem to have the whim of withdrawing that power from the leaders?

  Can you tell me more about this, please?
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  Cold Steel

  No, all I'm saying is that there's nothing to keep one from simply walking away.

  Neither the elders nor the church have any control other than what you, as members, give them. You can thumb your nose at the leaders, ask them who ordained them, where they got their authority, and how they know that "Jehovah" sustains them in their decisions.

  Believe me, when you see a real police force, real tyranny, you'll know it.
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  dgp

  Cold Steel. I won't reveal more personal information that this: I DID live in a regime like those inspired in 1984. As a foreigner, I had many perks that the "rank and file" didn't. And, I didn't have to do the things the average people had to. You could touch sadness in the air. I know what I am talking about. Did you ever read the story of the East German female politician who was shocked to learn that the file the Stasi had on her had one informant, "HARALD", who happened to be her husband? She knew the Stasi had a file on her; that was not news. WHO the informer was, that was the big shock.

  I am afraid you are misinformed. There are many people who do not walk away from the Watchtower because they know they would lose people they love. I am not in the Watchtower, and will never be, and I don't say who I am because I know the person I came here for would never speak to me again if this person knew I am posting here. Some people in this forum can't reveal their wish to leave the religion to their wives or husbands or children, else they would lose them. Did you read the post by Mouthy? The one in which she is exultant because this 81 year old lady finally got a phone call from her 63 year old daughter? That is why many people are stuck in the society. And that is why so many of their youth leave as soon as they can afford to leave.
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  freydo

  The wtbt$ made the rules - either buy in 100% because they never make errors - and with apostolic succession, since they claim a gb existed in 1st century, with no dissent allowed - unlike the 1st century - or become an enemy or dead. Reminds me of one of the last assemblies I attended, when I heard something from the podium about certain ones who were "permanently df'd." The wtbt$ is the apostate church that linked up with the UN.
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  1914BS

  black'white belly feel indeed!!
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  freydo

  "Interestingly, aren't we kept in fear all the time by our own "Big Brother", the Watchtower Society? They say that we have relative freedom but then we realize that don't. Case in point, a study that we had in the book, Keep Yourselves in God's Love.

  "As servants of Jehovah, we rightly want to look our best, which means dressing in a way that is neat, clean, in good taste, and appropriate for the occasion...Above all, we want to bring honor to Jehovah and his people and to recommend ourselves as God's ministers, doing "all things for God's glory"...Our dress, grooming, and cleanliness are even more important when we are engaging in the field ministry or attending a Christian meeting. Ask yourself: 'Do my appearance and personal hygiene draw undue attention to me? Do they embarrass others? Do I consider my rights in these areas to be more important than qualifying for service privileges in the congregation?' "-Keep Yourselves in God's Love, Chpt. 5, para. 11-15

  The paragraph ends by telling us that it is up to us - our own personal choice - how we want to dress. However, did you see the threat at the very end of the above paragraph? They pretty much say, 'You can dress however you want as long as we tell you that it is okay. If you do not dress in a manner that we approve, you will lose all of your privileges in the congregation.' It was so subtle that many didn't notice it for what it was. Now, is the Society wrong for telling us that we need to dress in a manner befitting to a Christian? Absolutely not! That is Biblical. But we are not allowed to dress how we want to. We even have a list of appropriate dress and grooming at Bethel and, we all know how we should dress at congregation meetings.

  Little things like that show that this is a form of control. In 1984, the form of control is, 'if you do not do what we command we will kill you." It is true that the Bible says, "If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work." (1 Timothy 3:1) We should want to receive privileges in the congregation - there is nothing wrong with that. However, the Society makes everyone overly excited about privileges, even making it seem like if someone has not received privileges or been appointed, that something is wrong with them."

  1 Corinthians 11:17 (NIV) "In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good."

  Very well thought out.What's really important, is rank, even though they swear there are no titles. It degrades everything else. You're either part of the clergy or you're nothing but something to be patronized and told you're never doing enough, and watch out, somebody is always watching for you to slip.
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  No Longer Held Captive

  Bullshit, Coldsteel, many dont walk away because they are afraid of losing everything....what branch of the wbts were you in? many on here will disagree with you, and dgp you say you are looking for a specific person on here to speak to, but he or she wont speak to you, are you a lurker? are you an active dub on here to wind people up? The brs and sisters on here aint that stupid, they have been through all that and maybe more.
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  dgp

  No Longer Held Captive, I am not a lurker and I am not an active dub, either, and I am not here to wind people up. You can read my original post and you will know why I am here. You can believe me or not, as I won't give any personal information around here. By the way, if you read my posts, you will see I am NOT a witness.
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  Nathan Natas

  Hi No Longer Held Captive.

  I notice that you've been here almost one whole month now, yet you seem to have developed some kind of omniscience about others that permits you to call b.s. on them when they write about thier internal motivations.

  Were you by any chance involved in the cortexifan experiments conducted by Dr. Walter Bishop and Dr. William Bell, or did you take other drugs that give you vision into the hearts of men?
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  No Longer Held Captive

  Nathan, I dont take drugs, but dgp, said he was looking for a specific person on this board, gave details of that persons wife and kids, in one breath he says forgive the wbts and go back to it, despite its faults, then he has his eyes on another mans wife who is still part of the wbts. Sometimes, a little discernment. Not all here are genuine nathan, there true blue dubs that take back that all is said, maybe even members of branch offices are on here. But, dgp has said he is looking for a specific person, and that person wont speak to him, whys that? and i said bullshit once, a rightly so, as people dont leave the borg in the face of losing their families. Have you ever received mail from borg members about fucking your wife and kids, killing members of your families, carrying out terror attacks?

  Maybe you havent, but others on this forum, as well as that of others have been hurt deeply by this organisation and what it does, and to come on here and defend it, and to tell people to go back to it despite its faults, well, here is the wrong place, because nobody here is interested in defending it. I know a similar guy to dgp, with similar initials, similar circumstances, and my wife is 45, my daughters are 20, he gave away virtually the same information in a very subtle way.

  During the book study group he would sit with his shorts on with his genitalia hanging out of his shorts, women and kids had to look at this, and all the elders could say was" we have the situation under our control". His own daughter got pregnant at age of 14, and men visiting the house that would spend the night there with the daughters, the elders would shake their hands and even enjoy their smutty jokes.

  He was bombed out of the Police force in the uk, as they had so many complaints about him. He had been in a few forces and he was moved on. In britain, there are officers on the move all the time so as to escape conviction, when they fuck up, they get transferred in the uk. there are currently 158 officers in scotland with 2 or more criminal convictions (The Scotsman). It also went to crown prosecution, great witness dont you think? There is more stuff Nathan, very sensitive, but because of pre-judicial enquiries and proceedings it cant be made open on here

  www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2summary_0286-18907567_ITM

  Not everyone on here is on here for genuine reasons, and some do take this info back to their masters at the kingdom halls and branch offices.

  The similarities could just be similarities Nathan, then again, what if the similarities are more than that?