Evolutionists - please help!

by Georgiegirl 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • TD

    Don't try to gulp down the whole camel with one swallow.

    Evolution is not about how life got here in the first place. The simplest question vis a vis organic evolution is simply whether life changes over time. In other words, do new species emerge from common stock? Do these species diverge to the point where reproductive isolation occurs?

    At the point where a species is no longer fertile with other members of the parent family (e.g. The Fox and other members of the Dog family; the Cheetah and other members of the Cat family) the basic building block of evolution becomes a reality that is difficult to deny.

    It then becomes a question of how far this process may go. For example, did the Dog, Bear and Racoon all descend from a common ancestor? Did modern Cactus plants descend from the Pereskiopsis? Are the Rhinocerous and Horse related? Why is the Hippopotamus believed to be the closest relative of modern Whales?

    Once you start truly looking at these questions in depth, it becomes very difficult to take strict creationism seriously.

  • villabolo
  • villabolo

    Hamilcarr: "I think evolutionist is mainly used by creationists as a pejorative label."

    You're right but the word could be redeemed. It also makes for a simpler contrast, like abortionist/anti-abortionist, but everyone wants a unique label that puts them in the best light.


  • Psychotic Parrot
    Psychotic Parrot

    I'm surprised none of the boards many creationists have showed up with Ray Comfort videos yet

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    I'm still on my own search for answers. But I'm not in a hurry, it's not like Armageddon is coming next year or something. But I thought I'd comment on this...

    Georgie: "I feel like first I have to "unlearn" the JW teaching"

    It's so easy to punch holes in the JW teaching, once you allow yourself to start thinking without Watchtower Corporation blinders. By far the biggest flaw is accepting strict creationism and accepting the literal, global, Noachian flood. The world is covered with millions of "creative marvels", according to JWs, yet somehow they all fit in a floating box that landed on Mount Ararat, just a few thousand years ago. The Reasoning book that we were trained to take door-to-door, provides little help in discussions with evolutionists. And if confronted with a question about the flood, don't even bother with it. Walk away. It's a lost argument. Here's a couple of recent threads about the flood/evolution...



  • Cadellin

    Georgie--Try Evolution: The Triumph of an Idea, by Carl Zimmer. The nice thing about Zimmer is that he's not a scientist but a science writer, and a damn fine one at that--he's won tons of awards. He's got a great way of taking fairly complex ideas and presenting them simply (as opposed to simplistically, which is what the WT does). He sticks to mainstream, cutting edge science--no weird, on-the-fringes stuff--and uses loads of specific examples and easy to understand analogies. In this particular book, he walks through all the different and converging lines of evidence for evolutin, from fossils to dna to ongoing speciation.

    Zimmer also has an award winning blog, linked to Discover.com, I believe, that you might enjoy perusing through. I'd recommend some of his older posts as lately he seems to have been caught up in promoting his books. The talkorigins.org website has been mentioned and I'd second that recommendation, especially the essay "23 Evidences for Evolution," (or something along those lines). Check out the "must read" files, too.

    Don Prothero's Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why it Matters, as suggested by Spook, is also first-rate. As well, I enjoyed Richard Fortey's Life: The First Four Billion Years for synthesizing all the different events going on--because evolution happens in along with and as a result of climatological, geological and other ongoing phenomenon and this book, aside from being just a plain enjoyable and approachable read, helps to put it all in context.

  • inkling
    I think evolutionist is mainly used by creationists as a pejorative label.

    Perhaps, but the OP is probably just working with the term she knows
    from WT publications, and not necessarily with the same connotations.

    And it's a whole lot better than "Darwinist".

    Anyway, a few of my early favorites...

    "Finding Darwins God" - Kenneth Miller

    "Climbing Mount Improbable" - Richard Dawkins

    This video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vss1VKN2rf8


  • losthusband

    I am just finishing reading this and it is brilliant!!

    Richard Dawkins - Greatest Show on Earth.



  • losthusband

    By the way......I was given a book to read by my wife --- Life How did it get here - By evolution or creation?

    I read it with this study guide........ http://www.dimaggio.org/Heretic/critical.htm

    I think you'll find it very interseting!!


  • seattleniceguy

    Wow, losthusband, that link from dimaggio.org is completely devastating. This is a great reminder that former Witnesses need to question absolutely all information they learned from the Society.


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