Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-08-09 WT Study (September 15, 2009, pages 11-15)(OBEDIENT)
Review comments will be in red or headed by COMMENTS
WT material from today's WT will be in black
Quotes from other sources will headed by QUOTES
w = Watchtower
g = Awake
jv = Proclaimers book
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WT child abuse www.silentlambs.org
Blood issue www.ajwrb.org
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BE OBEDIENT AND COURAGEOUS AS CHRIST WAS
"Take courage! I have conquered the world."--John 16:33
Does obedience to God mean obedience to the WTS (FDS/GB)? Were there times in ancient Israel that the belief
systems were not in harmony with the Law? Should Israelites then just have blinded obeyed the corrupt priests? In
Jesus' day did he tell his followers to blindly obey the religious leaders of his day? What about today, should jws
blindly obey their religious leaders?
(Matthew 15:13-14) . . .In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. 14 LET
them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
START OF ARTICLE
Q1. How complete was Jesus' obedience to God?
While Jesus may have "always" done "God's will" did he always do what the religious leaders said? Did he stop curing
on the Sabbath. Did he tell his disciples to wash in the ritual way the religious leaders insisted on? Did he approve of
their corban tradition?
Even the WTS recognizes this is wrong but do not see themselves in the role of the religious leaders in giving rules that
have no scriptural basis.
And why was it harder on earth as a human? Didn't Jesus come from a situation when Satan had rebelled, taken 1/3 or
the angels with him, seen the angels go down to earth and marry women, seen Satan have access to heaven and taunt
God and the angels, and not be able to do anything about it?
*** w98 8/1 pp. 9-10 par. 11 Jehovah—The Source of True Justice and Righteousness ***
During his Galilean ministry in the spring of the year 31 C.E., Jesus spotted a man with a withered hand in a synagogue.
Since it was a Sabbath, the Pharisees asked Jesus: “Is it lawful to cure on the sabbath?” Rather than feel genuine
concern for this poor man’s suffering, they had a desire to find a pretext for condemning Jesus, as their question
revealed. No wonder Jesus was grieved at their insensitive hearts! He then pointedly threw a similar question back at
the Pharisees: “Is it lawful on the sabbath to do a good deed?” When they kept silent, Jesus answered his own
question by asking them if they would not rescue a sheep that had fallen into a pit on the Sabbath. “Of how much more
worth is a man than a sheep!” Jesus reasoned, with irrefutable logic. “So it is lawful [or, right] to do a fine thing on the
sabbath,” he concluded. God’s justice should never be shackled by human tradition. Having made that point clear,
Jesus went ahead and healed the man’s hand.—Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5.
*** w90 10/1 p. 11 par. 5 Righteousness Not by Oral Traditions ***
The common people who flocked to hear Jesus were spiritually impoverished, having been “skinned and thrown about
like sheep without a shepherd.” (Matthew 9:36) With arrogant haughtiness the scribes and Pharisees scorned them,
called them amhaarets (people of the land), and despised them as ignorant, accursed sinners unworthy of a
resurrection because they did not keep the oral traditions. By Jesus’ time those traditions had become so voluminous
and such an oppressive morass of legalistic nit-picking—so laden with time-consuming ceremonial rituals—that no
workingman could possibly keep them. No wonder Jesus denounced the traditions as ‘heavy loads on the shoulders of
men.’—Matthew 23:4; John 7:45-49.
So can we expect to be "convinced," "forced," "tricked" just by Satan? Can we expect "intense mental, emotional, and
physical pain" just from Satan?
Are jws willing to be obedient even to death? How is that possible when they are not willing to be obedient as far as
life...case in point, movies that really watch?
Q2,3. What can we learn from Jesus' being obedient despite his experiencing suffering?
So what were the "new" aspects of obedience that Jesus learned that he had not learned in heaven? Was it easier for
a perfect spirit to obey than a perfect man? Why then did Satan and 1/3 of the angels fail the obedience test? Had
Jesus not already proved his complete integrity by not joining Satan or going down to earth to find a human mate when
the other angels did?
Are jws allowed to think they can remain obedient on their own? But who are they told to depend on, God or the WTS,
God but only through the WTS.
demonizing all non-jws--WICKED SOCIETY
*** w07 2/1 p. 24 par. 12 Never Cease Growing in Your Appreciation ***
We must obediently follow the direction Jehovah provides through his Word and his organization.
*** w05 3/15 p. 24 Highlights From the Book of First Samuel ***
As we offer to Jehovah “the young bulls of our lips,” we must do our best to obey the direction he gives through his
written Word and the earthly part of his organization.
*** w88 4/1 p. 31 Is Obedience Always Proper? ***
When our heavenly Father, Jehovah God, speaks, whether through his Word, the Bible, or through his earthly
organization, it is all the more important for us to listen and obey, thus proving that we are obedient worshipers who do
not ignore the loving reminder: “Did you hear me?”
OBEDIENT DESPITE IMPERFECTION
Q4. What does being created as free moral agents mean for us?
What does the WTS mean when they say "free moral agents"? Is it "we can decide to do good or to do bad"? What
the Bible says is bad and good or what the WTS says is bad or good? "Freedom to choose to obey or disobey"
means obeying God or the WTS? Responsible or accountable to God or the WTS?
*** Creation book chap. 16 p. 190 par. 6 Why Would God Permit Suffering? ***
Also, humans were created to be free agents. They were not made to react like robots, or compelled to do certain
things primarily out of instinct, as are animals or insects. But this freedom was to be relative, not absolute. It was to be
exercised responsibly, within the boundaries of God’s laws, laws that worked for the common good.
Q5. What struggle do we all have, and how can we be successful?
So if obedience is easier when experiencing sacrifice, pain, inconvenience, how did the angels who stayed in heaven
and did not follow Satan, have their obedience tested? They did not come down to earth like Jesus. Does that mean
that if bad things had never happened in heaven or on earth, that no one's obedience would have been fully tested?
Would God have to initiated situations that called for sacrifice, pain and inconvenience?
(James 1:13) . . .When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor
does he himself try anyone.
Demonizing all non-jws--spirit of the world
obey Jehovah or the WTS?
Q6,7. Illustrate how personal study can help us make wise choices.
Notice that the WTS does not encourage studying the bible without "bible-based publications." But only WTS
publications are meant here even if non-jw publications use many scriptures.
Picking a movie without immorality and violence--What about the immorality and violence talked about in the bible
before the flood, or Lot having sex with his daughters and the complete destruction of all the people in Sodom and
Gomorrah, or the concubine whose husband allowed her to be gang-raped to death and then cut up her body in 12
pieces and strew them over the land of the tribe of Benjamin? Or Judah going to a temple prostitute who turned out to
be his daughter-in-law and then calling for her to be killed and burned?
If one is not to even consider the "mention" of these things, how can one read the bible, let alone a WTS publication
that discusses it?
"strict obedience to God" = WTS
“Does ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ [Watchtower organization] endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet
together to engage in Scriptural research or debate?—Matt. 24:45, 47. No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the
world, a few associates of our organization have formed groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects.
Some have pursued an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the
New World Translation. …They have also held conferences and produced publications to present their findings and to
supplement what is provided at our Christian meetings and through our literature. …Thus, ‘the faithful and discreet
slave’ does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight…
For those who wish to do extra Bible study and research, we recommend that they explore Insight on the Scriptures,
‘All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial,’ and our other publications….”—Kingdom Ministry, September 2007, p.
Q8. Why must we maintain high moral and spiritual standards?
So what is bad association? Anything outside the WTS organization and even in the WTS organization. Anything the
WTS and its representatives say is bad association?
*** w95 2/15 p. 16 par. 11 Saved Alive Through the Great Tribulation ***
In the Christian congregation, young and old alike need to limit association with those not dedicated to Jehovah. To
receive God’s favor, we strive to be blameless and without spot from the world. (Psalm 26:1-5; James 1:27; 4:4) Thus,
we will be assured that at Armageddon, Jehovah will not sweep us away in death along with the ungodly.
*** w04 4/1 p. 13 par. 13 Resist the Spirit of a Changing World ***
Bad associations can involve anything or anyone—even within the congregation—reflecting the spirit of the world.
What about the violent and immoral "entertainment" in the bible? Is it all right if it is informational?
Q9. Why must we be determined every day to obey Jehovah?
Choose to do things God's way or the WTS way? Obey God or the WTS?
JESUS--THE FOREMOST EXAMPLE OF COURAGE
Q10. What kinds of pressures may be put on us, and how should we respond?
Demonizing all non-jws--this world's attitudes and conduct...resist contamination. Are we to think that all non-jws are
liars, cheats, immoral, drug addicts, swear, thieves, murderers, pedophiles, rapists, don't do good deeds helping
others not just from their religious group?
Are jws to beware of all non-jw relatives as opposers seeking to get them to sin against God?
Are we to think that all educational systems are promoting evolution and atheism? I can think of many religious
colleges that are not doing that as well as many secular ones? What about school K-12?
What if your workplace promotes such ideas?
Q11. How can reflecting on Jesus' example give us more courage?
World's influence--all non-jws
The world--all non-jws
Remain separate from the world--all non-jws
How does a jw do that and live next to non-jws, work with non-jws, go to school with non-jws.......?
LEARN COURAGE FROM JESUS
Q12-14. Give examples of Jesus' showing courage.
Why wouldn't Jesus have great courage? He had angels protecting him and he had authority as God's Son. Which of
us has that?
Jesus cleared out the temple of those not adhering to God's standards--is the WTS suggesting that each jw should do
the same, clear out the congregation of the hypocrites dishonoring God by making their manmade rules of equal value
to God's principles?
Remember Jesus knew he had angelic protection so that he would not die until the proper moment.
Are jws allowed to protect themselves, family, or fellow jws from physical persecution, even rape? What happened in
*** Proclaimers Book (1993) chap. 29 p. 674 “Objects of Hatred by All the Nations” ***
In Malawi, there is only one political party, and possession of a party card indicates membership. Although the
Witnesses are exemplary in paying their taxes, in harmony with their religious beliefs, they decline to buy political party
cards. To do so would be a denial of their faith in God’s Kingdom. Because of this, late in 1967, with the
encouragement of government officials, gangs of youths throughout Malawi launched an all-out attack on Jehovah’s
Witnesses that was unprecedented in its obscenity and sadistic cruelty. Over a thousand devout Christian women were
raped. Some were stripped naked before large mobs, beaten with sticks and fists, and then sexually assaulted by one
person after another. Nails were driven through the feet of the men and bicycle spokes through their legs, and then they
were ordered to run.
*** g95 9/22 p. 14 Should I Learn Self-Defense? ***
If escape is impossible, you may have no choice but to ward off violence as best you can.
*** g91 7/8 p. 13 Self-Defense—How Far Can a Christian Go? ***
In not supporting pacifism, however, the Bible indicates that there is a time to defend oneself. Christians may ward off
physically aggressive attacks against themselves, their families, or others in genuine need of defense. A woman
threatened with rape should scream and use any means at her disposal to resist intercourse.—Deuteronomy 22:23-27.
Shouldn't Jesus' followers today 'fearlessly expose the unloving false teachers of our day and their wrong teachings'?
These were men in their religious community not outside it in the WTS labeled Christendom.
What happens when they do...they are labeled apostates and kicked out of the congregation? Wasn't Jesus' labeled a
blasphemer (apostate) and killed?
Should Christians in this situation have supported Peter's avoidance of the Gentile Christians? Should they not have
said anything to anyone in the congregation? Should the Christians have imitated Peter, feeling they needed to have
someone like Paul point out his error? Didn't they need to take a COURAGEOUS stand like Jesus?
(Galatians 2:11-14) 11 However, when Cephas came to Antioch, I resisted him face to face, because he stood
condemned. 12 For before the arrival of certain men from James, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when
they arrived, he went withdrawing and separating himself, in fear of those of the circumcised class. 13 The rest of the
Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense, so that even Barnabas was led along with them in their pretense.
14 But when I saw they were not walking straight according to the truth of the good news, I said to Cephas before them
all: “If you, though you are a Jew, live as the nations do, and not as Jews do, how is it that you are compelling people of
the nations to live according to Jewish practice?”
The WTS admits that jws (only jws are Christians) today cannot cast out a demon which is considered a "miracle." But
what is "spiritual warfare" (or "theocratic warfare") according to the WTS? It is permission to lie.
*** w60 6/1 p. 352 Questions From Readers ***
There is one exception, however, that the Christian must ever bear in mind. As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic
warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the
purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies. A Scriptural
example of this is that of Rahab the harlot. She hid the Israelite spies because of her faith in their God Jehovah. This
she did both by her actions and by her lips. That she had Jehovah’s approval in doing so is seen from James’
commendation of her faith.—Josh. 2:4, 5; Jas. 2:25.
Some WTS wrong religious notions:
Christ's presence began in 1874
Armageddon coming in 1914, 1915, 1920, 1925, 1975, (1984), (1994)
Birthdays were okay until 1951
Christmas was okay until 1928
Cross was on cover of WT and okay until 1931 but not until 1936 was the teaching totally done away
Superior authorities (up till 1929, secular governments; 1929-1962 Jesus and God; 1962-to present secular govts)
Sodom/Gomorrah resurrection (numerous dates, yes and no)
Organ transplants (up till 1967, yet; 1967-1980, no; 1980-to present yes)
Great Tribulation began in 1914 and was temporarily stopped in 1918; 1970, GT has not started yet.
Add your own
Q15. On what was Jesus' courage based?
So what is "bravado"?
1 a : blustering swaggering conduct b : a pretense of bravery
2 : the quality or state of being foolhardy
So the WTS is really saying that without them, a jw would be a swaggering fool, only pretending to be brave.
Do jws have a thorough knowledge even of the WTS teachings, let alone the bible. Without reaching for a WT
publication could the jw who came to your door explain "1914" or can you if still attending do that? My experience is
that even long-time jws dreaded being assigned a talk on 1914. Or what scriptures proved that 1975 was the end of
6,000 years of human history?
Are jws trained to use the bible as a "sword" or WTS publications? Notice how they are not sent directly to the bible.
How many jws without a crutch like the topics for discussion in the back of the NWT or the Reasoning from the
Scriptures or another WT publication could give a reference like Jesus did? What scripture says that jw men today
cannot have beards or that jws cannot have blood transfusions (although they can take hemoglobin-based products
made out of stored blood)?
*** w06 6/1 p. 15 Find Contentment by Applying Bible Principles ***
If you feel that your contentment is ebbing, endeavor to identify the real cause. Then look for principles that you could
apply to correct the situation. For instance, you might check pages 110-11 of the book “All Scripture Is Inspired of God
and Beneficial.” There, the book of Proverbs is discussed, and you will find a large selection of principles and counsel
listed under 12 headings. The Watch Tower Publications Index and Watchtower Library on CD-ROM are excellent
sources of information.
Q16. How can we gain greater faith?
How many jws ever read the daily text every day let alone the bible scripture assignment? In my experience, very few,
Christian meetings--only jw meetings
Truths--see changed jw beliefs in paragraph 14 Comments.
Q17,18. How did one young sister show courage in school?
17. Kitty not ashamed in school. How many adult jws identify themselves as jws at work or in their neighborhood? In
Kitty's case it wasn't until she was in her late teens and changed schools (no old friends to lose and close to
graduation) that she finally owned up. Don't you wonder what else she said or why it was edited? So what beliefs was
she standing up for? None are mentioned.
18. Several mentioned their religious backgrounds, adding that they did not really practice their faith---so in what way
was Kitty practicing hers....nothing is mentioned other than basing it on the bible. I went to high school and chummed
around with 3 girls, 1 Baptist, 1 Lutheran, 1 independent Evangelical. They were all moral girls and lived their lives
according to the bible. Were there no students like that in that school...I think so.
Notice that Kitty did not identify herself as a Christian, as a follower of Christ, but rather "one of Jehovah's Witnesses."
Where in the New Testament are Christians identified as jws? Rather they are identified as witnesses of Jesus.
(Acts 1:8) . . .but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both
in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the most distant part of the earth.”
(Revelation 1:9) . . .I John, YOUR brother and a sharer with YOU in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in
company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Patmos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus.
(Revelation 12:17) 17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of
her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.
(Revelation 17:6) . . .And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the
witnesses of Jesus.. . .
(Revelation 19:10) . . .At that I fell down before his feet to worship him. But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! All I
am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing to Jesus. Worship God; for the
bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying.”
Q19. (a) What does having real faith involved? (b) How can we bring Jehovah delight?
The WTS says that it means more than believing that God exists which is true. But where is the deep trusting
relationship with Christ? Standing up for the righteous principles of the bible or only the WTS interpretation? What
about jws who took a courageous stand not to have an organ transplant between 1967 and 1980 when these were
considered a disfellowshipping offense? What about the people who died for the WTS interpretation?
Next week, Christ's Love Moves Us to Love. But who are jws allowed to love.