Started reading Crisis of Conscience

by KingDavidwasframed 20 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • blondie

    I guess it's too hard for him to use the WT-CD?


    w66 10/15 p. 629 Rejoicing over "God’s Sons of Liberty" Spiritual Feast ***

    Liberty is to know Christian truth," the eager audiences at a number of the assemblies heard F. W. Franz, the Watch Tower Society’s vice-president, say in his discourse "Liberty-giving Worship and Freedom of Worship." "It is those who worship the one living and true God Jehovah through his Son Jesus Christ that are set free. Jehovah’s witnesses strive to keep the liberty that their practice of pure worship gives to them," declared Franz.

    THE YEAR 1975

    At the Baltimore assembly Brother Franz in his closing remarks made some interesting comments regarding the year 1975. He began casually by saying, "Just before I got on the platform a young man came to me and said, ‘Say, what does this 1975 mean? Does it mean this, that or any other thing?’" In part, Brother Franz went on to say: ‘You have noticed the chart [on pages 31-35 in the book LifeEverlasting—inFreedomoftheSonsofGod]. It shows that 6,000 years of human experience will end in 1975, about nine years from now. What does that mean? Does it mean that God’s rest day began 4026 B.C.E.? It could have. The LifeEverlasting book does not say it did not. The book merely presents the chronology. You can accept it or reject it. If that is the case, what does that mean to us? [He went into some length showing the feasibility of the 4026 B.C.E. date as being the beginning of God’s rest day.]

    ‘What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?’ asked Brother Franz. ‘Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah’s witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.

    ‘When we were approaching the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, there was no sign that the Gentile Times were going to end. Conditions on earth gave us no hint of what was to come, even as late as June of that year. Then suddenly there was a murder. World War I broke out. You know the rest. Famines, earthquakes and pestilences followed, as Jesus foretold would happen.

    ‘But what do we have today as we approach 1975? Conditions have not been peaceful. We’ve been having world wars, famines, earthquakes, pestilences and we have these conditions still as we approach 1975. Do these things mean something? These things mean that we’re in the "time of the end." And the end has to come sometime. Jesus said: "As these things start to occur, raise yourselves erect and lift your heads up, because your deliverance is getting near." (Luke 21:28) So we know that as we come to 1975 our deliverance is that much nearer.’

    "Let us make the most of the time and get in all the good hard work to Jehovah while the opportunity affords," he urged.

  • etna

    I've ordered C O C and will be recieving it in a few days. I was always to frightened to read it, but after reading everyones input on this site, I can't wait to get it and start reading.

    Thanks Etna

  • KingDavidwasframed

    Starting Chapter 7 - The double standard between Mexico and Malawi is astonishing.

  • alanv

    Hi Etna I'm so pleased that you have been spurred on to read Ray's book because of the good comments about it on this sight. The same was true of me. We would all love to hear what you think of it after you have read it.

  • glenster

    I like RF and found some insider information good for my research in his two
    books, which I read back when they came out (I haven't seen the latest edi-
    tions). Some basics I remember are that he's a nephew of FF, was in the writing
    dept., then, for about nine yrs., was a GB member. He did some research that
    conflicted with the policies (regarding 607 BC, etc.), was put out, was disfel-
    lowshipped from going to Kingdom Hall after about a year (wondering if the
    problems would be resolved?), then wrote his two books.

    I'm not disputing any specific information, and I hope nobody thinks I'm being
    unreasonably cynical, but I always had something nag at me about it. The story
    has it he was a well-researched and sincere WT writer and, for nine years,
    sincere GB leader. That last combination of words don't go together--in my re-
    search, I haven't found a sincere period of JWs leaders, let alone can I imagine
    it's possible if they're well-researched about the JWs leaders' distinctions.
    The research material would indicate the JWs leaders' distinctions are wrong so
    would be insincerely manipulated by JWs leaders. A handful of sections in my
    web site about the JWS leaders are about authors complaining that their material
    was misused and such. I started realizing it right away when I began research-
    ing the JWs leaders' distinctions, so 9 years seems like a long time.

    Assuming he didn't spend 9+ yrs. getting coffee for the others, can someone
    more familiar with it than me explain that? Did they tend to have him write
    about conventional things and put others in charge of writing about the distinc-
    tions or--?

  • AwSnap

    There ya go ....see? it's like reading a suspense/mystery novel

  • KingDavidwasframed

    Just finished Chapter 7'

    "OK, the Gentile Times ended in 1874, no 1896, no 1894, no in 1914 but the nations will be wiped from the face of the Earth after 1914, OK 1925, no 1974. Now let's just reprint a Cole's Notes version of highlights to show we got it right the first time"

    How did no one stop this before Ray Franz? Am I wrong or is it no different than the Pharasees trying to protect their position by trying to eliminate The Christ?


    Congratulations on reading Crisis of Conscience!

    That book helped me to finally see that the WT is an man-made organization.

    I am grateful!


  • KingDavidwasframed

    OK, Just finished!

    How was this man looking to start his own church? I can totally relate to the manner in which he was treated and subsequently given the cold shoulder.

    I recall when my ex was spreading false stories about me, the last straw was when she had told me that "it was improper for me to be alone with my daughter in a room". I asked her what she meant by that and she said that "it looked wrong and that I shouldn't even be alone with my daughter in a hotel room" (I had taken my daughter aged 8 at the time on a overnight speaking engagement in Detroit with me). This was near the end of our relationship and after I had already "faded" for about 6 months. I realized where she was going/ or had gone with this and so I went to speak with an elder about it the next night after the meeting because if she was already spreading THAT one, it was total slander! (not like the other claims weren't - but THAT I REALLY took offence to) The elder wouldn't even talk to me in the hall and I was totally calm and not freaking out (I had seen how they manipulated emotional people in that way before - when I was an MS, they wanted to use me as "muscle" to intimidate ones that they would excite). We stood out by my truck and his words to me were "well, how do we know that it isn't true, we don't really know you anymore" I COULDN'T BELIEVE MY EARS!!! I had known this elder since we were kids (over 20 years) and he had known my wife for only about 4 years since he moved into the hall and because I wasn't regular or at the meetings, I was capable of such a dispicable crime. I wanted to vomit!

    Anyway, sorry for the rant, but reading how Ray was treated so coldly by those he had served with and known for so many years brought that to mind and really chaffes my hind parts. The greatest justification however is how I have (and do) lived a life of peace and happiness now and my daughters get to see who is actually more Christ like in their actions as did Ray. I applaud Ray for taking his stand.

    He was obviously blessed to outlive the men who plotted his so-called Spiritual demise and to live a quite humble existence that proved his accusers as the ones that lied and should be ashamed of what they have done and ultimately need to answer before Jehovah. His record keeping was phenomenal.

  • Hiding Questioner
    Hiding Questioner

    C of C was a turning point for me as well. I just wish I had read it years earlier, it would have saved me a ton of grief.

    "He was ambushed like I was (and so many others). I think it was Mark Twain who said "A lie is half way around the World before the truth can even pull up its pants". I couldn't believe how many so called "friends" believed the lies about me without so much as even asking to hear my side as well. Now I see why."

    Why is it that good people are "ambushed" as JWs? As noted, Ray, KD and myself were ambushed and then slandered with lies, with those spreading them seemingly getting away with it. It hurts and makes me angry to this day. Using KD's last post's text I can also tell a similiar story to that of KD...

    I recall when my ex was spreading false stories about me, as business travel to San Francisco somehow gave her justification to tell others that I was now gay. I too went to speak with an elder (after being ambushed by a kangeroo court JC trial of her creation) and the elder wouldn't even talk to me even though I was now kicked out of my own house (wife changed the locks) and took my car and now I was out on "the streets". I sought his help and, as we stood there at his front porch, he refused to invite me in (even though I had previously attended his book study in his home!!!) and his words to me were "Well, I can't establish who is telling the truth and therefore I can not know what isn't true. Sorry." I COULDN'T BELIEVE MY EARS!!! By this time I was being shunned by all the JWs in the area, so I then sought shelter at my "worldly" ex boss's house who, without hesitation, said "you're welcome to stay here as long as you need." So, because I had the misfortune of traveling to San Francisco, I was now somehow "capable of" being gay and therefore must be shunned.

    Like KD, sorry for the rant.


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