Is Watchtower's position on smoking consistent with its position on masturbation?

by Island Man 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  steve2

  Nicotine is one of the most physically addictive substances known to humankind - it has been compared to the opium addiction. Masturbation - especially for those who report chronic strong urges throughout the day - is psychologically addictive, but to the best of my knowledge, is not physically addictive. So, at least at their extremes, they share in common addictive properties. Alcohol shares more in common with the physically addictive properties of nicotine. So the 'rule of thumb' here at least appears to be making physically addictive substances disfellowshipping offenses - although it is curious that, whilst excess use of alcohol consumption can lead to being disfellowshipped, there appears no minimum level of tobacco use that is tolerable within the organization. This may be a test case: a Witness is observed in public having a puff on a worldly acquaintance's cigarette  but otherwise does not smoke.

  This shows up the tangled messes humans make when they try to enforce so-called "moral" laws on their fellows. Perhaps we need a comprehensive law code. Oh  there already is one: the Jewish Talmud. 

  
  
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  confuzzlediam

  Finkelstein You can booze if your a JWS but don't ever pick up a cigarette and smoke it.

  
  

  I was disfellowshipped 5 years ago for drinking.  According to the committee that disfellowshipped me, getting drunk was compared to adultery.  They likened it to 1 time of committing adultery being a disfellowshipping offense, as was getting drunk just one time.  

  
  

  My dad who has been a witness for most of his 75 years said he had NEVER heard of such a thing and he served as an elder for many years when he was younger.  BTW I was only disfellowshipped because I did not show a repentant attitude over admitting to occasionally getting drunk over the almost 20 years that I had been of legal drinking age.  I was considered a drunkard, which anyone who knows me, knows different.  Apparently defending myself was considered unrepentant and I was disfellowshipped for it.  

  
  

  SO yes, you CAN booze it if you are a JW...as long as you don't get caught, or in my case turned in for being perceived as being drunk on a night out with "friends" from the congregation.  As is the case with every other sinful wrongdoing.  If no one knows, then you don't get in trouble for it.
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  mynameislame

  confuzzlediam if that is true that is unusual. And outside of the fact that it seems to have gotten you out of the cult you could have contested it. You can contest it and they  bring in an outside body of elders, and you can contest it again and then they bring in a CO or something to that effect. 

  The sad part about disfellowshipng is that feeling guilty and having low self esteem over  sinning seems to be one of the primary reasons for being considered unrepentant. 

  When my friend found out I got DFed he told me I should have played up how sorry I was for the elders. Then he said that the elders are only men and can make mistakes.  He was considered a mature JW and is likely an elder now. I was really surprised by his statement. If he really believed that then I didn't understand how could he be a JW in the first place.
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  confuzzlediam

  mynameislame I did appeal it.  We met a week later with 3 additional elders from the surrounding circuit/district.  A total of 6 elders were present for my appeal.  The only thing they did at the appeal meeting was drop my "charges" from being a drunkard to being an excessive drinker.  

  
  

  My parents wrote into the society on my behalf, saying that this was unjust and that the way the elders treated the congregation members was unloving and not Christ-like.  The society responded saying it was out of their hands and basically they supported the local elders decision to disfellowship and reprove the group.  My parents were devastated!

  
  

  My situation was unique in that there was only 1 elder from my congregation that was on my committee.  The other 2 were from different congregations, one being a substitute CO from 2 hours away.  This was because they were conducting "interviews" with the 20ish people who attended an annual tradition of bowling the night before thanksgiving.  Someone went to the elders to say that there was too much drinking and unchristian like conduct that went on that night.  The CO and DO at the time formed a committee to "interview" each participant as to their conduct that night AND the conduct of their fellow christian brothers and sisters.  If they admitted to being drunk that night or any other night prior to the occasion AND were repentant, they were only publicly reproved.  If they admitted to being drunk that night or any other night prior and were NOT repentant, they were disfellowshipped.  OR if they admitted to any other wrongdoing and were not repentant, they were disfellowshipped.  

  
  

  My "interview" started with 2 elders.  They talked to my husband while I was in another room.  Then brought me back into the room and talked with me.  After they dismissed us, so they could talk, they asked us back into the same room where a 3rd elder had magically appeared.  Thus, my impromptu judicial committee.  It was a grueling 3 hours where I was left feeling like someone had punched me repeatedly in the stomach.

  
  

  All in all there were 6 who were publicly reproved and 4 who were disfellowshipped.  All but mine was announced on the same night, at the end of the meeting.  Mine was announced at a later date because I was the only one who appealed it.  This was a witch hunt to make sure that we were made examples of what not to do, due to the "gossip" that had extended throughout the circuit.

  
  

  I was told the exact same thing!!  Why didn't I just go along with the council given and say that I was sorry and would correct my behavior.  Well, my behavior didn't need to be corrected, I was not what they were accusing me of being.  I also heard SO many people tell me that the elders were not perfect, that they too can make mistakes and that I just needed to wait on Jehovah to correct the situation, in his time.  Well, their mistake was devastating to my children, husband, and all of our friends and family.  

  
  

  BUT yes, in the long run, it was a blessing in disguise!!  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  

  
  
• 

  Elders_Kid

   BTW I was only disfellowshipped because I did not show a repentant attitude over admitting to occasionally getting drunk

  Same thing they told me.  Got drunk once, smoked once, had a girlfriend.  They said I wasn't repentant, and DF'd me for that, not for the actual behavior.  I didn't appeal, my roommate got DF'd because he was my roommate.  He wasn't doing anything wrong at the time (that they knew about) they just DF'd him because we lived together when I got the boot.  He appealed and lost. 

  Your DF story reminds me of one my dad was involved in.  He was was on a committee that sounds similar to this on the western side of Michigan.  They had called in elders from other congregations because there were other elders involved in the situation.  He was proud to have done his duty.  I don't know what the fallout was, it was from a town north of me, one that seemed to have more fun than our Congregation did. 
  

  Anyway, it seems that a lot of times they DF somebody just to make an example of them regardless of the severity of the "offense".  Odd that the WBTS wouldn't step in for you, just let the locals run the show.

  EK
  
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  blondie

  It was not to silently reprove unless few people knew about the df sin.

  It was not a DA offense.

  It was considered SPIRITISM not just uncleanness. (something they don't mention much now) 
• 

  coalize

  BTW I was only disfellowshipped because I did not show a repentant attitude over admitting to occasionally getting drunk over the almost 20 years that I had been of legal drinking age

  
  

  Ah, with such a disfellowshipping politic in France or Germany, in the 2015 yearbook, the number of publisher in these countries is 0... :D :D
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  clarity

  Finkelstein ............

  But a JW who smokes faces disfellowshipping.

  Really ?

  Back in the day I remember it to be DA or silent reprove. ??

  ^

  I know a man in his 40's who was df'd for having a smoke when he was only 16...............to this day he is shunned even tho he has not smoked since and is a wonderful husband & father of 4!

   

  clarity 
• 

  blondie

  The use of tobacco (smoking, snuff, chewing)

  The use of coca leaves (chewing)

  The use of betel nuts (chewing) 

  Were discussed in 1973 and jws using those products had 6 months from June to quit or be DF'D.

  Private reprovings are not dependent on the "sin" but how many know of it in the congregation.

  The WTS discussed the background of spiritism and using them was spiritistic.

  This point has not been mentioned much since then (1986 are some).

  I was 21 and had a parent and a first cousin that faced DF'ing...straight from the platform and from elders privately. 

   
• 

  blondie

   Remember I'm just reporting not supporting

  w73 6/1 pp.338-339 pars.12-15

   Keeping God’s Congregation Clean in theTime of His Judgment***

  This raises, however, the question of consistency as regards accepting for baptism persons still using tobacco. They too are enslaved to a harmful product, whether by smoking, chewing or snuffing it. Consider what a report in Science World of April 9, 1973, says:

  "The drug . . . that causes the addiction is nicotine. . . . Within a minute or two after a person ‘takes a drag’ on a cigarette, nicotine is present in the brain. But 20 to 30 minutes after the ‘last drag,’ most of the nicotine has left the brain for other organs . . . . This is just about the time when the smoker needs another cigarette. . . . When there is no nicotine, the body ‘hungers’ for it. So much so that the body sometimes becomes ‘sick’ without it. Withdrawal symptoms—a sick feeling—begin. . . . Some of these symptoms are drowsiness, headaches, stomach upsets, sweating, and irregular heart beats."

  Even worldly governments have been moved to issue serious warnings against the danger of tobacco use. Do, then, persons who have not broken their addiction to tobacco qualify for baptism?

  The Scriptural evidence points to the conclusion that they do not. As has been explained in other issues of this magazine, the Greek word phar·ma·ki´a used by Bible writers and translated "practice of spiritism" or "spiritistic practices" has the initial meaning of "druggery." (Gal. 5:20; Rev. 9:21) The term came to refer to spiritistic practices because of the close connection between the use of drugs and spiritism. Tobacco was also used initially by the American Indians in this way. It can properly be placed, therefore, in the category of addictive drugs like those that provided the source for the Greek term phar·ma·ki´a. The nicotine in tobacco does not have the same mental and emotional effects produced by "hard" drugs such as heroin or the so-called psychedelic drugs like LSD; yet nicotine addiction does definitely affect the mind and exercises a strong enslavement. In Europe at the close of World War II, in some instances cigarettes were worth more than money. Reportedly, prostitutes sold themselves for a few cigarettes, and ordinary people sacrificed even food ration coupons to obtain tobacco.

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  Check jwfacts as the the history of this WTS doctrine:

   Smoking became a disfellowshipping offence in 1973. Yet smoking has always been harmful to health. "Societies were formed to discourage smoking" from the early 1900's1 and scientists proved the connection to lung cancer in the 1930's.2 Further, smoking was introduced as wrong because it was related to spiritism,3 in which case it was wrong from the birth of the religion and would not be something God should wait 100 years to provide enlightenment on.

   http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/light-gets-brighter.php