My mom assigned an elder as her Health Care Proxy and now dr. won't speak to us

by heyfea 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • blondie
    blondie

    The form that the WTS nows has it members fill out is a SERIOUS legal document, a healthcare proxy. It does not have to be renewed yearly; only if you move to another state/province. I don't think that it is the same as a financial (durable) power of attorney. I don't think then that legally just the healthcare power of attorney, makes or gives legal financial responsibility to the assigned agents. I would investigate having it set aside legally though due to the language issues and any possible memory or capability issues.

    Powers and limitations of an agent

    The agent is empowered when a qualified physician determines that the primary individual is unable to make decisions regarding health care . The agent has the power to remove or sustain feeding tubes from the primary individual if these tubes are the only things that are keeping the primary individual alive. The agent's decision stems from knowledge of the patient's desire in this matter. If the primary individual made his or her wishes clear on the proxy form, then they must be followed despite any possible objections from the agent. Beyond this matter, if there are no limitations on the health care proxy form, the agent can make most other decisions in accordance with what the primary individual would have wanted. An agent will not be legally or financially liable for decisions made on behalf of the primary individual as long as they take into account the primary individual's wishes and beliefs.

    In the UK , people may appoint a health care proxy under the Mental Capacity Act 2005 , but it is referred to as a lasting power of attorney . [8]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_proxy

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother
    Can you believe that the hospital will not provide her children with any health updates about her because our names are not in the proxy?

    That is terrible ! However , I cannot help wondering if this may be an over strict interpretation of the document , by the hospital..Have you spoken to her congregation? Would they be reasonable and helpful?

    I cannot speak for Brooklyn but I do not think that the congo would want to freeze you out, unless it was a contentious blood issue.

    BTW You are right about the people being duped. Nobody understands what they are signing when they sign even a small blood card, these days. I used to tell them to be aware of the rights they were giving the hospital by signing an agreement to any treatment that the doctor chooses, bar blood..

  • Robdar
    Robdar
    if he's so concerned about my mom, or to pick up any bill not covered my Medicare.

    As long as you are not a co-signer of the debt, you are not responsible for your mother's bills at all. Do not believe anybody who tells you differently.

    I have a question for you: When you say "proxy" do you mean Medical Durable Power of Attorney? If so, get her to sign another one. If she isn't willing to do so, you will have to prove she was not of sound mind when she signed the first one.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    If this is a Durable Power of Attorney, what is the WTBS telling people when they have them sign it? Seems they might be treading on thin ice here. If they are just giving this thing to people and telling them "sign here" without having a clear discussion about the legal nature of the document; that would seem like deception to me.

  • CHILD
    CHILD

    Ask to speak with a social worker and a patient advocate. The hospital is supposed to provide a translator for your mom so she can understand what's happening with her health and the physician's plan of care. It is important a psychiatric evaluation take place ASAP. Usually, the closest family member is included in discussions regarding a patient's care, but your situation is different.

    Have the social worker explain exactly what that document means in regards to care for your mom and your resposibility as her child. Sounds like a possible ethics problem for the JW.

  • CHILD
    CHILD

    Here is a link to info on the health care proxy:

    http://www.health.state.ny.us/forms/doh-1430.pdf

  • Alana
    Alana

    A similar thing happened to me last year when my mom was in the hospital. I found out via my mom's paperwork that she had two elders signed as the Medical POA. I was LIVID! I asked my mom about it and just as was said in a previous post, she didn't realize that it would limit notification and medical decisions to only those elders. She said she thought that family would automatically be informed and that these would be "extra" contacts/decision makers. So, she said she would change to add me.

    At that time, I also contacted a sister from my mom's congregation who works for an attorney (and she also has an unbelieving husband) and told her. She was shocked, because she has her husband on that form, even though he isn't even a JW. So, through her I got a legal POA for financial matters, etc. Mom said she would call the elders for a change. And, get this.......one tried to talk her out of it, because I am no longer a JW. That made me furious. She eventually said she would get it revised. Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen the new one yet, so I need to check that out.

    My mom had no idea what all was contained in that document. She said she doesn't want them to have access to her medical records and other rights included in that document. She just thought it was like the old Blood Card, giving them permission to uphold her stance on blood transfusions in case she is incapacitated. She didn't want them to be responsible for any life-or-death decisions other than that.

    ~Alana

  • blondie
    blondie

    They had a talk starting in 2006 re the new forms: My husband used to give these talks and he said that people slept through them.

    *** km 11/06 p. 2 Service Meeting Schedule ***

    25min: "How Do I View Blood Fractions and Medical Procedures Involving My Own Blood?" Question-and-answer discussion and demonstration. The elder handling this part should follow closely the outline provided by the branch office.

    *** km 11/06 pp. 3-6 How Do I View Blood Fractions and Medical Procedures Involving My Own Blood? ***

    Save

    How Do I View Blood Fractions and Medical Procedures Involving My Own Blood?The Bible commands Christians to "abstain from . . . blood." (Acts 15:20) Thus, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not accept transfusions of whole blood or the four primary components of blood—namely, red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets, and plasma. They also do not donate or store their own blood for transfusion.—Lev. 17:13, 14; Acts 15:28, 29.

    What are blood fractions, and why is their use a matter for each Christian to decide?

    Blood fractions are elements from blood that are extracted through a process called fractionation. For example, plasma, one of the four major components of blood, can be divided into the following substances: water, about 91 percent; proteins, such as albumins, globulins, and fibrinogen, about 7 percent; and other substances, such as nutrients, hormones, gases, vitamins, waste products, and electrolytes, about 1.5 percent.

    Are fractions also covered by the command to abstain from blood? We cannot say. The Bible does not give specific direction on the subject of fractions. Of course, many fractions are derived from blood that has been donated for medical purposes. Each Christian should make a conscientious decision as to whether he or she will accept or will reject the medical use of these substances.

    When making such decisions, consider the following questions: Am I aware that refusing all blood fractions means that I will not accept some medications, such as certain ones that fight viruses and diseases or that help blood to clot in order to stop bleeding? Could I explain to a physician why I reject or accept the use of certain blood fractions?

    Why are some procedures involving the medical use of my own blood a personal decision?

    Although Christians do not donate or store their own blood for transfusion purposes, some procedures or tests involving an individual’s blood are not so clearly in conflict with Bible principles. Therefore, each individual should make a conscientious decision as to whether to accept or to reject some types of medical procedures involving the use of his or her own blood.

    When making such decisions, ask yourself the following questions: If some of my blood will be diverted outside my body and the flow might even be interrupted for a time, will my conscience allow me to view this blood as still part of me, thus not requiring that it be ‘poured out on the ground’? (Deut. 12:23, 24) Would my Bible-trained conscience be troubled if during a medical procedure some of my own blood was withdrawn, modified, and directed back into my body? Am I aware that refusing all medical procedures involving the use of my own blood means that I refuse treatments such as dialysis or the use of a heart-lung machine? Have I prayerfully considered this matter before making a decision?

    What are my personal decisions?

    Consider the two work sheets on the following pages. WorkSheet1 lists some of the fractions extracted from blood and how they are commonly used in medicine. Fill in your personal choice as to whether you will accept or will reject the use of each of these fractions. WorkSheet2 lists some common medical procedures involving your own blood. Fill in your personal choice as to whether you will accept or will reject these procedures. These work sheets are not legal documents, but you may use your answers on these work sheets to help you to complete your DPA (durable power of attorney) card.

    Your decisions should be your own and should not be based on someone else’s conscience. Likewise, no one should criticize another Christian’s decisions. In these matters, "each one will carry his own load" of responsibility.—Gal. 6:4, 5.

    [Footnotes]

    Helpful information on this subject is found in the June 15, 2004, issue of TheWatchtower, pages 29-31.

    Helpful information on this subject is found in the October 15, 2000, issue of TheWatchtower, pages 30-1, and the TransfusionAlternatives—DocumentarySeries—OnDVD.

    [Chart

    onpage

    5]Sheet

    1YOURPERSONAL

    DECISION

    CHRISTIANSChoices

    YouFRACTIONSNeedto

    MakeALBUMIN—UPTO4%OF

    PLASMA

    A protein extracted from

    plasma. Types of albumin

    are found also in plants,

    in foods such as milk and

    eggs, and in the milk of

    a nursing mother. Albumin

    from blood is sometimes …… I accept albumin

    used in volume expanders or

    to treat shock and severe …… I refuse albumin

    burns. These preparations

    may contain up to

    25 percent albumin. Minute

    amounts are used in the

    formulation of many other

    medicines, including some

    formulations of

    erythropoietin (EPO).

    IMMUNOGLOBULINS

    —UPTO3%OFPLASMA

    Protein fractions that may

    be used in some medicines

    that fight viruses and

    diseases, such as …… I accept

    diphtheria, tetanus, viral immunoglobulins

    hepatitis, and rabies. or

    They may also be used to …… I refuse

    guard against some medical immunoglobulins

    conditions that threaten

    the life of a developing

    baby and to counteract

    the effects of snake

    or spider venom.

    CLOTTINGFACTORS

    —LESSTHAN1%OFPLASMA

    There are various

    proteins that help blood

    to clot in order to stop …… I accept

    bleeding. Some are given blood-derived

    to patients who tend to clotting factors

    bleed easily. They are or

    also used in medical …… I refuse

    glues to seal wounds blood-derived

    and to stop bleeding clotting factors

    after surgery. One

    combination of clotting

    factors is known as

    cryoprecipitate.

    Note: Some clotting

    factors are now made

    from nonblood sources.

    RED

    CELLSHEMOGLOBIN—33%OFRED

    CELLS

    A protein that transports

    oxygen throughout the body

    and carbon dioxide to the …… I accept

    lungs. Products being hemoglobin

    developed from human or or

    animal hemoglobin could be …… I refuse

    used to treat patients with hemoglobin

    acute anemia or massive

    blood loss.

    HEMIN—LESSTHAN

    2%OFREDCELLS

    An enzyme inhibitor

    derived from hemoglobin

    that is used to treat a …… I accept hemin

    group of rare genetic or

    blood disorders (known …… I refuse hemin

    as porphyria) that affect

    the digestive, nervous,

    and circulatory systems.

    WHITE

    CELLSINTERFERONS—A

    TINY

    FRACTIONOFWHITECELLS

    Proteins that fight

    certain viral infections …… I accept

    and cancers. Most blood-derived

    interferons are not interferons

    derived from blood. or

    Some are made from …… I refuse

    fractions of human blood-derived

    white blood cells. interferons

    PLATELETS

    At present, no fractions

    from platelets are being

    isolated for direct use

    in medical treatment.

    [Chart

    onpage

    6]SHEET

    2

    YOURPERSONALDECISION

    PROCEDURES INVOLVING THE MEDICAL USE OF YOUR OWN BLOOD

    *Note: The methods of applying each of these medical procedures vary from physician to physician. You should have your physician explain exactly what is involved in any proposed procedure to ensure that it is in harmony with Bible principles and with your own conscientious decisions

    NAME OF WHAT IT Choices YouTREATMENT ACCOMPLISHES Need to Make(You might want to

    speak to your

    physician before

    accepting or

    refusing any of

    these procedures.)

    CELL

    SALVAGEReducesblood

    loss.

    Blood is recovered

    during surgery from …… I accept

    a wound or body cavity. …… I might accept*

    It is washed or filtered …… I refuse

    and then, perhaps in a

    continuous process,

    returned to the patient.

    HEMODILUTION

    Reducesblood

    loss.

    During surgery, blood is

    diverted to bags and

    replaced with a nonblood

    volume expander. Thus …… I accept

    the blood remaining in …… I might accept*

    the patient during surgery …… I refuse

    is diluted, containing

    fewer red blood cells.

    During or at the end of

    surgery, the diverted

    blood is returned to the

    patient.

    HEART-LUNG

    Maintains

    circulation. Blood is diverted to an

    artificial heart-lung …… I accept

    machine where it is …… I might accept*

    oxygenated and directed …… I refuse

    back into the patient.

    DIALYSIS

    Functionsasan

    organ.

    In hemodialysis, blood

    circulates through a …… I accept

    machine that filters and …… I might accept*

    cleans it before returning …… I refuse

    it to the patient.

    EPIDURAL

    BLOODStopsspinalfluid

    leakage. A small amount of the

    patient’s own blood is

    injected into the …… I accept

    membrane surrounding the …… I might accept*

    spinal cord. It is used to …… I refuse

    seal a puncture site

    that is leaking spinal

    fluid.

    PLASMAPHERESIS

    Treats

    illness.

    Blood is withdrawn and

    filtered to remove plasma.

    A plasma substitute is

    added, and the blood is

    returned to the patient. …… I accept

    Some physicians may want …… I might accept*

    to use plasma from another …… I refuse

    person to replace that

    from the patient’s blood.

    If so, this option would

    be unacceptable to a

    Christian.

    LABELING

    ORDiagnosesortreats

    illness. Some blood is withdrawn,

    mixed with medicine, and …… I accept

    returned to the patient. …… I might accept*

    The length of time one’s …… I refuse

    blood is outside the body

    may vary.

    PLATELET

    GEL;Sealswounds,

    reduces

    bleeding."MADE Some blood is withdrawn

    FROM

    YOUROWN and concentrated into

    BLOOD")

    a solution rich in

    platelets and white cells. …… I accept

    This solution is applied on …… I might accept*

    surgical sites or wounds. …… I refuse

    Note: In some formulations,

    a clotting factor taken

    from cow’s blood is used.

  • AudeSapere
    AudeSapere
    My husband used to give these talks and he said that people slept through them.

    That's a shame because that is true life-saving information.

    Of course, it's for a life that most true JWs don't believe to be 'the real life', but it's more real than they will ever know.

    We had similar situation with my JW mom. She has 5 children (one is still active) but only two local elders were allowed to get info on her. Among other things, she was dehydrated so docs wanted to give her IV fluids. She refused because she didn't want tubes and life-support (WTF?? IV fluids is not what most people consider 'life-support'.)

    Eventually, her never-a-jw brother talked to her over the phone and got her to accept the fluids.

    I think she was little disappointed that she didn't die from that hospital stay.

    Seems that MANY JWs don't really understand medical protocol and the HLC doesn't seem to be too interested in making sure that the individual knows the ramifications of assigning POA to the local elders. This is a group of people that has, in general, turned given all responsibility for decision-making to the local elders on behalf of the org as a whole. They are so used to relinquishing personal responsibility that a quick sign of a form is a quick-fix ... until they are actually facing death ... at which point some actually wake up and begin to realize what jeopardy they may be in. Often it's too late because then the decisions become emotional and tougher to completely think through.

    If several make a stink about the current HCL / POA protocol, perhaps they will change their SOP to include acknowledgement that all other relatives will be summarily excluded from any and all medical decisions.

    Probably they won't. But I think worth a try.

    -Aude.

  • flipper
    flipper

    HEYFEA- I'm so sorry you are experiencing the idiocy of the control measures the WT society and Jehovah's Witnesses powers use to have ULTIMATE control of it's members. And without even informing them of what they're signing in detail ? Who the *&ck do these jerks think they are anyway ? God ? Well, yes they do. What you are experiencing is totally wrong and unjust.

    You have had many good suggestions here. I would read them carefully. I can't add anything other than I'm so sorry you are going through this. It makes me want to check up on my 84 and 82 year old parents medical info with the witnesses and see what THEY have signed. Thanks for posting your experience. I wish you the best

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