Looks at watch: It's been the time of the end for about a bazillion hours, 32 minutes and 4 seconds.......5 seconds, 6 seconds.......
Time of The END ????
by wobble 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Cold Steel
The Roman world was represented by the legs of iron. The empire was split in twain with capitals in Rome and Constantinople. The Roman empire was broken up into smaller kingdoms, represented by the feet and toes of iron and clay, and as there were ten toes on the image, the ten kingdoms representing the toes were: Italy (496 A. D.), France (753), England (853), Germny (806), Holland (922), Portugal (1138) Persia (1139) Austria-Hungary (1159), Spain (1171), and Greece (1829). It would be in the days of these ten kings that the Lord would establish His great and final dispensation, which would be circa 1829.
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Awen
The prophecy concerning the return of the Messiah states, "No man knows the day and the hour in which our Lord is coming", what about the year? As stated previously many people look to 2012 as that year. Personally I don't care, because if I look towards a particular time, then I am doing something wrong. IMO, people should not be doing good works in the hopes of being saved, "for if anyone wants to save his soul will lose it, but he that loses his soul on my behalf, will by no means lose his reward".
IMO no one should do things for a reward. They should do things because it is the right thing to do, plus it follows Christ's example. What was his reward for all the good things he did? Pain, suffering and death on a cross, then raised to heavenly life. We should expect no less. If I am doing what I know I should be doing, then whatever the time of the end proves to be doesn't matter. Such is why Jesus said we should not be looking at dates and trying to figure things out, only that when we see these things occuring to know that our deliverance is near.
When the WT kept pronouncing the World would end on such and such year or that we do not expect the sysytem to last more than five years, I knew them to be false prophets. My faith has always been in YHWH and His Son, never in a man made organization that is too blinded by it's own pride to admit mistakes, nor to correct them. When they do make mistakes, they blame God. YHWH has given us new light, rather than admitting they were in error. YHWH has never in the Bible given incorrect information, although at times it has been misinterpreted by his people who kept looking for signs and portents, rather than just waiting and trusting in Him. When you honestly trust God, your problems melt away. I don't need to know the answer to every question or why a good person suffered and an evil person thrived. I trust that there is a reason for God inaction, a reason that I might not understand anyway, considering my inability to process things or understand long-reaching inplications of certain actions which I may not live to see the conclusion of.
Like a trusting child, I feel/know that God has only my best interests at heart, even if I am going thru hard times. Those hard times made me a better person, which i wouldn't be had I not experienced those hard times.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
The WT gave me a fish, Jesus taught me how to be a fisher of men.
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wobble
Thanks to all for your comments !
It seems to boil down to the fact that no person has the ability to say that we are living in the time of the end now, based on scripture, which makes all the WT posturing about urgency and what you should, and should not, be doing seem very silly.
WELCOME AWEN ! To this estimable discussion board, and thank you for your post which puts into words the way I feel. the strange thing is that I felt that way for decades, and used to say so to the Dubs, that it made no difference to me when the end came, I would serve my Lord even if the end was thousands of years away.
Love
Wobble
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brofromzion
Now, there are so many disasters everywhere in the world: wars between nations, ethnic conflicts, terrors, famines, earthquakes, and deadly cold or heat or flood caused by changes in weather patterns. Whenever such things occur, people tremble with fear, not knowing who or what they should set their hearts on.
The Bible already prophesied about the coming disasters and what people would do in the day of such disasters.Amos 9:2-4
2 Though they dig down to the depths of the grave,
from there my hand will take them.
Though they climb up to the heavens,
from there I will bring them down.3 Though they hide themselves on the top of Carmel,
there I will hunt them down and seize them.
Though they hide from me at the bottom of the sea,
there I will command the serpent to bite them.4 Though they are driven into exile by their enemies,
there I will command the sword to slay them.
I will fix my eyes upon them
for evil and not for good.”As described in the above prophecy, people desperately try to hide themselves anywhere, because they come to face terrible disasters which men cannot endure. The above prophecy is not about what happened in the days of Amos the prophet about 2,800 years ago, but what will occur in the great and dreadful day of the LORD, at the Last Judgment.
Men cannot escape the last plagues by their own methods
Modern people, who live in the age of the high-tech science, feel fear about the coming disasters and the end of mankind, and they try to find various ways to escape from the disasters. They make every effort to find refuge underground or at the bottom of the sea or on a planet outside the earth so that they may escape the threat of nuclear weapons capable of annihilating all life on earth many times over. An atomic submarine for hiding themselves at the bottom of the sea, a spaceship for climbing up to the heavens, … , such various methods are being discussed. According to a press report, America has constructed a large bunker beneath the White House at Mount Weather; and there is said to be ninety-nine underground cities in various places, as a provision for emergency.
However, the Bible clearly says that even by using the modern scientific methods, no one can escape God’s fierce anger. It also says that the last disaster will come upon all the earth, not just upon parts of it.Luke 21:35
35For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth.Isaiah 24:1-13
1 See, the LORD is going to lay waste the earth
and devastate it;
he will ruin its face
and scatter its inhabitants-2 it will be the same
for priest as for people,
for master as for servant,
for mistress as for maid,
for seller as for buyer,
for borrower as for lender,
for debtor as for creditor.3 The earth will be completely laid waste
and totally plundered.
The LORD has spoken this word.4 The earth dries up and withers,
the world languishes and withers,
the exalted of the earth languish.5 The earth is defiled by its people;
they have disobeyed the laws,
violated the statutes
and broken the everlasting covenant.6 Therefore a curse consumes the earth;
its people must bear their guilt.
Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up,
and very few are left.7 The new wine dries up and the vine withers;
all the merrymakers groan.8 The gaiety of the tambourines is stilled,
the noise of the revelers has stopped,
the joyful harp is silent.9 No longer do they drink wine with a song;
the beer is bitter to its drinkers.10 The ruined city lies desolate;
the entrance to every house is barred.11 In the streets they cry out for wine;
all joy turns to gloom,
all gaiety is banished from the earth.12 The city is left in ruins,
its gate is battered to pieces.13 So will it be on the earth
and among the nations,
as when an olive tree is beaten,
or as when gleanings are left after the grape harvest.Now, let’s see how the disaster comes upon every nation all over the world.
2 Peter 3:3-12
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat.
The Bible says that God will use fire for His judgment. So the disaster, which will come upon the whole world, is fire. When the day comes, the heavens will be destroyed by fire and all things will be burnt up and melt in the heat. The day will be a day of distress; even the warriors will tremble with fear and cry out bitterly.
However, God has prepared a way to escape the disaster when such dreadful day comes. He has made the way-the good news of salvation-known to us. We can get it only through the Bible, not through any high-tech equipment developed by scientists.Passover is the way to escape the disaster
Let’s take a careful look at God’s word of promise to let us escape any disaster.Exodus 12:11-14
11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the LORD’s Passover.12 “On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn—both men and animals—and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD. 13 The blood will be a sign for you on the houses where you are; and when I see the blood, I will pass over you. No destructive plague will touch you when I strike Egypt.
14 “This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD -a lasting ordinance.
At the time of the Exodus, when the plague of destroying every firstborn was brought upon Egypt, no plague befell to the Israeli houses which kept the Passover. In other words, the plague passed over them. Thus, Passover (pascha in Greek, pesach in Hebrew) implies “Plagues pass over.”
Such a history was written as a warning for us. Faithless Israel didn’t believe in the power of the Passover. However, Judah regarded the Passover as important and celebrated it. Through the history of Israel and of Judah, we come to realize how truly important the Passover is.
Hezekiah king of Judah read all the words of the covenant, which had been found in the temple of the LORD when it was being repaired and restored. He realized the covenant of God and sent couriers to all Judah and Israel so that they might celebrate the Passover which had not been kept for a long time. When the couriers delivered the king’s command to “come up to Jerusalem to celebrate the Passover,” Israel scorned and ridiculed them, and several years later it fell to Assyria (2 Ki 18:9-12). However, Judah celebrated the Passover holy and could repulse the attack of powerful Assyria with God’s mighty power (2 Ch 30:1-27; 2 Ki 18:13-19:37).
In these last days, there are two groups of people: one group who will receive terrible plagues, and the other who will escape them with God’s help.Revelation 7:1-3
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3″Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”The only way to escape the last plagues is to receive the seal of God. Then, what is the seal of God? The Bible prophesies that the blood of the Passover lamb will be a sign for God’s people so that they may escape the last plagues. In other words, the blood of the Passover lamb is ‘the seal of God’ through which God’s people can be saved.
At the time of the Exodus, the Israelites could be saved from the terrible plague of destroying every firstborn, by putting the blood of a year-old Passover lamb on their door posts and eating the meat. The Passover lamb of the Old Testament represents Jesus.1 Corinthians 5:7-8
7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.No one can escape the last plagues without ‘the blood of Jesus Christ’ who is the Passover Lamb.
John 6:53-56
53Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.Luke 22:7-15
7Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. 8Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.”9″Where do you want us to prepare for it?” they asked.
10He replied, “As you enter the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him to the house that he enters, 11and say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ 12He will show you a large upper room, all furnished. Make preparations there.”
13They left and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.
14When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.
Luke 22:19-20
19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
When the angels, who are given power to harm, let go of their hold on the wind [war], the terrible disasters [the last plagues] will come upon this earth (Rev 7:1-3). To make the last plagues pass over His people, God places His ’seal’ on His children’s foreheads. The ’seal of God’ is the seal of salvation through which God’s people can escape the disasters.
Ezekiel 9:3-6
3 Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side 4 and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”5 As I listened, he said to the others, “Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6 Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.
Whom did God order the destroying angels to begin with? He told them to begin with the elders [leaders] of the false churches, who do not have the mark-the seal of God, the blood of the Passover Lamb-on their foreheads.
Considering the prophecies of the Bible, we are now living in the days of the last plagues. God is awakening us, His children, to the fact that we can escape the plagues only through the ’seal of God.’ He shows us that His sealing work will arise from the east and spread to the west.Revelation 7:2
2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the seaWhen Apostle John received the revelation on the island of Patmos, he saw an angel ascending from the rising of the sun. This implies that God’s sealing work is to begin in the east.
God seals us as His own children
When we celebrate the Passover, God abides in us, and we in Him (Jn 6:56; 15:4-8). As we dwell in God, we belong to Him.2 Corinthians 1:21-22
21Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.God has set His seal on us to be marked as ‘His own.’ Let’s see what blessings God gives us, His own.
Isaiah 43:1-2
1 But now, this is what the LORD says—
he who created you, O Jacob,
he who formed you, O Israel:
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have summoned you by name; you are mine.2 When you pass through the waters,
I will be with you;
and when you pass through the rivers,
they will not sweep over you.
When you walk through the fire,
you will not be burned;
the flames will not set you ablaze.God has made us His own by putting His seal on us through the Passover. He has firmly promised to protect us from any destructive disasters. God is now calling His children, living in the days of disasters, to celebrate the Passover and escape the last plagues.
Before the angels, who are holding back the four winds, let go of their hold, we should preach the Passover of the new covenant-the seal of God-to the whole world, as the couriers of the good news of salvation.Brothers and sisters in Zion! Let’s give thanks to God for making us His very own, His treasured possession. We must all take part in God’s salvation work in this age.
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teel
there are so many disasters everywhere in the world: wars between nations, ethnic conflicts, terrors, famines, earthquakes, and deadly cold or heat or flood caused by changes in weather patterns
So have these disasters increased these days? Statistics shows otherwise. The truth is in many counts these "disasters" have lessened during the 20th century, and currently we have less wars, less famines than ever before. And roughly the same amount of natural disasters as ever.
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blondie
1799 A.D. was considered the time of the end by the Bible Students, and some groups still do.
1799
""But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the Time of the End: [then] many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased." Not only does the general increase of knowledge experienced confirm the teachings of `Daniel xi`, that the Time of the End began in 1799, but the predicted running to and fro —much and rapid traveling—also confirms it. These all belong to the Time of the End. The first steamboat was operated in 1807; the first steamcar in 1831; the first telegraph in 1844; yet today thousands of mammoth cars and steamships are carrying multitudes hither and thither, "to and fro." Sir Isaac Newton, the celebrated astronomer of the seventeenth century, was greatly interested in this statement by the Prophet Daniel, and declared his belief that in fulfilment of it human knowledge would so increase that men would possibly travel at the rate of fifty miles an hour. Voltaire, the noted French infidel, got hold of this statement and scornfully remarked: "Now look at the mighty mind of Newton, the great philosopher who discovered the law of gravitation: when he became an old man and got into his dotage, he began to study the book called the Bible, and in order to credit its fabulous nonsense he would have us believe that the knowledge of mankind will yet be so increased that we shall by-and-by be able to travel fifty miles an hour! Poor dotard!" Both of these men died long before the Time of the End had brought its wonderful increase of knowledge, which more than fulfils the prediction of the Christian philosopher, based upon the divine revelation." — 1892; "Thy Kingdom Come", pp. 63-64
Creation (1927) p.293 “Napoleon began this Egyptian campaign in 1798, finished it, and then returned to France on October 1, 1799. The campaign is briefly, yet graphically described in the prophecy, verses 40-44; and its being completed in 1799 marks, according to the prophet's own words, the beginning of "the time of the end….Twelve hundred and sixty years from 539 A.D. brings us to 1799, which is another proof that 1799 definitely marks the beginning of "the time of the end." This also shows that it is from the date 539 A.D. that the other prophetic days of Daniel must be counted.”
http://jehovah.net.au/datedoctrine.html
1921 "In Biblical symbology a time means a year of twelve months of thirty days each, or 360 days. Each day is considered for a year... Here are mentioned, then, three and a half times of 360 prophetic days each, or a total of 1260 prophetic days, equal to 1260 years. The Prophet then was shown that 1260 years would mark the beginning of the time of the end of this beastly order. Twelve-hundred sixty years from A.D. 539 brings us to 1799 -- another proof that 1799 marks the beginning of the 'time of the end.' This also shows that it is from the date 539 A.D. that the other prophetic days of Daniel must be counted." … "The most important thing to which all the prophecies point and for which the apostles looked forward has been the second coming of the Lord. It is described by the Prophet as a blessed time. Daniel then says: 'Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.' (Daniel 12:12). The watchers here, without question are those who were instructed by the Lord to watch for his return. This date, therefore, when understood, would certainly fix the time when the Lord is due at his second appearing. Applying the same rule, then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D. brings us to A.D. 1874, at which time, according to Biblical chronology, the Lord's second presence is due. If this calculation is correct, from that time forward we ought to be able to find some evidences marking the Lord's presence."(Harp of God, 1921, pp. 229-230.)
1922 "The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874." (The Watchtower, March 1, 1922)
1927 "Napoleon began this Egyptian campaign in 1798, finished it, and then returned to France on October 1, 1799. The campaign is briefly , yet graphically described in the prophecy, verses 40-44; and its being completed in 1799 marks, according to the prophet's own words, the beginning of "the time of the end." (Creation; 1927; p. 293) 1927 "Twelve hundred and sixty years from 539 A.D. brings us to 1799, which is another proof that 1799 definitely marks the beginning of "the time of the end." this also shows that it is from the date 539 A.D. that the other prophetic days of Daniel must be counted." (Creation; 1927, p. 294)
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blondie
Interestingly. there is no mention of this 1799 A.D. date in the WT Index or the Proclaimers book in regard to the time of the end....deceptive!
Added:
The WTS does point out where the Catholic Church used the 1799 date incorrectly (but don't mention their own use of that concept)
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w674/15p.234par.20Mankind’sMillenniumUnderGod’sKingdom—WhyLiterallySo***
This Latin religious father, Aurelius Augustine, who spread such an interpretation of Revelation 20:4-6, lived 354-430 C.E. In harmony with his view that the millennial reign of Christ was being fulfilled in the Roman Catholic Church on earth, it was later thought that the millennial reign of the Roman Catholic Papacy in a literal way was from the year 800 C.E., when Pope Leo II crowned Charlemagne in Rome as king of the Holy Roman Empire, to 1799 C.E., when Pope Pius VI, already deposed by Napoleon Bonaparte, was taken as a prisoner from the Vatican on February 20, and deported to Valence, France, where he died on August 29, 1799. The trouble that followed upon the Roman Catholic Church was viewed as marking the "little time" during which Satan the Devil was to be loosed at the millennium’s end. (Rev. 20:1-3, 7, Dy) However, it is now 168 years since the year 1799. That is not a "little time" for the Devil to be loosed; and yet the troubles on the Roman Catholic Papacy are worsening. And now the destruction of Babylon the Great, of which the Papacy is the most powerful member, threatens that religious empire in the near future.
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Awen
Well yes of course the WTS doesn't show their own dates and such. They also tell people not to look back into their own writings and history for this very reason. For if they did that, it would show them as the hypocrites they truly are. The best way to deter people from examining you (The WTS) over much is by directing attention away from one's self onto others. It's a common tactic used in court. You attack the witnesses (not JW's) credibility while your own may be in question. Then you never haver to address your own credibility because the persons sitting in the judgement seat are focused squarely upon the person you have accused.
I once tried to do research using the "Harp of God" publication and was waylaid by an Elder for even thinking such a thing. he said it was "Old Light" and no longer relevant to our modern day. I retorted that it was indeed relevant as past writings could point to a habitual way of see and promoting certain ideas. If the WTS had a tendency to attack others and ignore or refuse to address their own shortcomings it would show that they themselves lacked credibility. The Bible however shows the Apostles (for example) in good and bad light and how situations were handled.
I really love reading your posts Blondie, they are so informative and well thought out.
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wantingtruth
all of you have seen the fact that several generations of worshippers (from Russell until today) have had several approachings on Bible prophecies included the chronologies ,and all are being proven wrong
who can tell , what is the "common thing" of these interpretations ?