Comments from an elder judt returning from Elders' School

by Room 215 52 Replies latest jw friends

  • metatron
    metatron

    This concern is funny. If they lose enough elders, they may go to a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy.

    And yes, pornography is their problem. It is not a problem with 'apostates'. We post here extensively. We hold jobs, we manage interesting hobbies and usually have intimate relationships that are about average in stability. Where's the problem?

    As one doctor pointed out, people who masturbate get tired or sore and stop. It's self limiting. Where's the problem?

    The greediness exposed in this area is not greediness for fulfilling a physical desire, it's the greediness of the Watchtower leaders in trying to dominate people's personal lives.

    metatron

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    The greediness exposed in this area is not greediness for fulfilling a physical desire, it's the greediness of the Watchtower leaders in trying to dominate people's personal lives.

    Great observation, Metetron.

  • Frank75
    Frank75

    The old youth book had a statistic (unsourced of course) but I believe it is actually in Kinsey's work on Sexuality.

    98% of men and just over 50% of women masturbate. I was at the meeting as a teen struggling with my own masturbation guilt/issue when I glanced around the hall and tried to picture 98% of the men whacking off and 55% of the women playing with the man in the boat. I actually took a measure of comfort from that.

    Regardless of its accuracy it is a JW fact presented in a JW publication.

    Considering that, it is safe to conclude at least a majority if not all present GB males who can still get a stiffy are wanking. The same goes right down the chain of males in the Dub religion. (and at least 1 out of 2 JW princesses)

    As to the initial point in this thread, Pornography and mental images of fantasy only helps to masturbate.

    Masturbation is a healthy outlet for both men and women. Although there is nothing healthy about the JW sex starved environment.

    Frank75

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    And yes, pornography is their problem. It is not a problem with 'apostates'. We post here extensively. We hold jobs, we manage interesting hobbies and usually have intimate relationships that are about average in stability. Where's the problem?

    If you demonize masturbation, then you create guilt and mental issues.

    Most people who aren't Jehovah's Witnesses don't masturbate 24/7 while watching dungeon sex on the latex channel. (I know thats what the GB wants JW's to think, but it simply isn't true)

    This goes back to the veracity and credibility of the GB as a whole. They should have unique insights and wisdom to offer. Instead, they show themselves backwards as can be, actually causing more problems then they help solve.

    We now know that sexual repression causes depression, mental illness, and can be a catalyst for criminal sexual deviency.

    Thanks FD Slave and your GB for the wisdom from above. Looks like you still may need to jump a little higher to try to get at it.

  • donny
    donny

    Sex has always been a hidden fascination for elders. Back during my sentence in the organization, the secretary as well as the presiding and theocratic school elders were all supporting the lat of three district conventions held in the DFW area. I was a ministerial servant and was approached by the secretary to handle the picking up and depositing of money during the coming week.

    He gave me his large briefcase he used and said he would pick it up next week. That Saturday I was at home being bored and opened up the briefcase to recount the money that I had collected Thursday night. I noticed a big folder that said "Judicial Cases". I know that I was not supposed to look at them, but curiosity got the best of me.

    As I opened the folder and read the accounts inside, I was shocked at the questions asked and the details recorded regading issues of a sexual nature. These were just "Debbie fornicated with Steve" statements, these were writings that actually got me kind of worked up after reading them. I remember I had copied some of them into a diary I kept from time to time and I went and found it.

    This was from an entry on Oct 12, 1987. The italics part is from the elders "notes."

    "Wow, I can't believe there is so much immorailty in our congregation. I suspected some of what I read this morning but I had no idea that so much is revealed in their notes. Here is a comment regarding sister P##ton. 'She stated that Steven slowly unbuttoned her shirt while making licking noises. After it was unbuttoned, he helped her remove it and then helped her out of her bra. Then he said that her breasts were like honey biscuits and began slowly twisting her nipple on one while he orally copulated on the other one. Eventually this led to them both being naked and penile/vaginal copulation occured. She said she started out on her back and ended up with the rear entry position and upon completion he ejaculated upon her buttocks to avoid accidental impregnation' I really should not have read this stuff. Now I wont be able to look at some of them without laughing or feeling sorry for them."

    This was just one part of several similar documents that were in this folder. I would become a victim of this kind of interoagtion the following year when my ex-wife confessed that we had engaged in "oral activities" and it was now weighing on her conscience.

    Donny

  • Frank75
    Frank75

    Donny:

    I had the similar "fortune" of inadvertently gaining access to judicial cases. The truth is that these "envelopes" are supposed to be sealed and only opened again if and when the info is needed ie a "re-offense" or request for reinstatement. However they are usually left open or wrapped with a rubber band. I was equally mortified at how much "fornicating" was going on, but especially by who. Also who got off lightly and who faced the full weight of their authority. It spoke to my suspicions regarding beefs that certain ones had with others, and it seemed to play out in the punishments given out.

    There seemed to be an enthusiasm for the nitty gritty and words such as "penis" "nipple" "vaginal" "penetration" etc were common as well as other comments that were neither here nor there in my opinion.

    However one case of a couple who had a younger 17-18 relative stay with them was interesting for the opposite reason. She was drugged and raped over 2 or 3 nights. She only recalled faint memories of him and her going down on her like in a dream. Likewise she later reported the pain from sex that she had apparently never had before so was not acutely aware of what happened until she talked to her parents.

    She was given beer with something in it as far as allegations went. This was also around the time of the Paul Bernardo and Karla Homulka rape and murder case. (google it)

    Well as you can imagine the elders in several congregations were trying to get to the bottom of it as this couple went into hiding and then surfaced in this (my old congo) according to the notes "just recently".

    The notes had a tone of being a real hot potato issue that needed to go away. Instead of contacting the police everyone was told to kiss and make up and pretend the whole thing never happened so Jehobers people wouldn't get a bad rap. I have been long removed from that sickness so do not know if anything happened later down the road.

    Sometime after I left the witnesses I went to the police and they were equally disinterested in investigating it without a complaint from the girl who as I recall was never specifically mentioned in the notes.

    Frank75

  • Georgiegirl
    Georgiegirl

    Donny ...

    HONEYBISCUITS???

    REALLY??? OMG. I am crying I am laughing so hard!!!!

    Wow. He was a real Don Juan, wasn't he?

    Ahem...No, honey, your breasts aren't like towers...they're more like...like...BISCUITS! HONEY BISCUITS!

    *peals of laughter*

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    It doesn't matter that pornography has nothing to do with the real problems, but that the Society has something to beat the flock with, something they KNOW everyone does, and therefore a tool to use for the exploitation of GUILT.

    You couldn't believe how much admonition they give at Bethel for pornography, we're talking WAY more than what you'd hear at the congregation level. This is because they know just about every young male has, or does, view pornography and/or masturbates regularly. Statistics show over 90% of young males masturbate. It's simply something that has to be done, physiologically. So the Society exploits this and twists it into something that instills constant guilt on Bethelites in order to control them at every level emotionally.

    Think about it: if you can get someone to allow themselves to be manipulated at the deepest emotional level, they will do just about anything for you.

  • lrkr
    lrkr

    It is their biggest problem right now because a few years ago they really came down hard (no pun intended) on anyone looking at any type of porn. Elders who looked at sites with exposed boobs were confessing and ruining their marriages over it. Sounds like the lunacy continues. Nothing like a little Victorian values on Steriods in the Internet age to really screw people up.

  • donny
    donny

    HONEYBISCUITS???

    Yes those were "Steves" words not mine. LOL I remember having to take a cold shower after reading those or I may have done "completion."

    Don

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