My dad brought out a good point today. He said how can for example, a catholic in one country go to war against a catholic in another country and both claim to have God on their side? For instance, the catholic priest on one side prays for that side, and the catholic priest on the other side prays for his side. Yet they're both the same religion. Jw's are the only religion that do not go to War. Does he have a point? What are your thoughts on this?
What are your feelings about War?
by wantstoleave 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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leavingwt
Jw's are the only religion that do not go to War.
This is an old lie. Fire up Google.
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leavingwt
Regarding war, in general.
Sadly, there comes a time, when some folks need killing. It's just that simple. It's an ugly business.
Thankfully, when that time comes, brave men and women have answered the call.
The Watchtower organization wouldn't even exist if nations hadn't gone to war to secure the freedoms they abuse to recruit new people.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -- Edmund Burke
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Elsewhere
> jw's are the only religion that do not go to War.
Assuming this is even true... it is arbitrary and completely meaningless in terms of presenting superior ethics or morality. I say this because, according to the bible, gawd's chosen people (the Hebrews) were genocidal war mongers who wiped out several civilizations in their military campaigns.
Even the bible describes the gawd of the bible as "god of armies" (Jer. 46:10).
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mouthy
My Mother wrote that to the DAILY MIRROR about 50 years ago.
The responses she got was amazing...I was in the 2nd WW
Lost my baby in a buzz bomb.But when I became a JW,I met
other German JW's,Who were nice folks ( I'm a limey)
So I would ask them to work with me ,Then at the door I would use
that VERy topic to trap people ,by saying"
" Look at the world? religion against religion,I come to make peace
here is a German,I am an English woman.She made munitions in her
country I made munitions in mine.Then we backed up all that wanted to
send them off to kill,But In this religion,we dont go to war,we love ALL
So you can see we are Gods People." YEAH!!!!! I made 10 people with
that twist. BUT what I didnt tell em, WAS!!!! If you join & dont agree with
it we will make your kids hate you,tell your wife/husband/kids/your the
Devils kin.Didnt tell em they were to be unpaid salesmen of their mags,books
What do i think of war.????Ghastly! but because men want power,& are
determined to get it... we will have wars,I am thankful for the many wonderful
men & women that have given their lives thinking they were fighting a war to end war
But like the wicked WT ....it will continue ...UNLESS Christ comes Back. -
wantstoleave
Aw sorry to hear you lost your baby Mouthy ((hugs)).....that must have been devastating :(
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Witness 007
War...what is it good for...absolutely nothing.
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blondie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacifism
http://christianity.wikia.com/wiki/Pacifism
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Christian_pacifism
Real Christian pacifists
- Society of Friends (Quakers), which originated in the U.K. as a breakaway from the Puritans
- Mennonites, followers of the teachings of Menno Simons, originating in the Netherlands from the Anabaptist tradition (whence also came the Baptists, who are generally not pacifist). Except for their pacifist stance the Mennonites are very much like most evangelical Christians in their beliefs and place a great deal of emphasis on being born again.
- The Amish, a much more conservative group also from the Anabaptist tradition. So conservative, in fact, they also reject most modern technology and live without electricity. Basically, they stick to their own communities, live off the land, and shun any involvement in worldly affairs, whether it be war, politics, the Internet, or driving a car. They are renowned as excellent farmers and make some great furniture for those bargain hunters from West Virginia who venture up across the Pennsylvania state line for our furniture rather than supporting cheap made-in-China labor at Ikea...but this is getting off topic isn't it?
- Church of the Brethren. Careful here, there are three different groups known as "Brethren" and only one of them is pacifist. One is the Plymouth Brethren (not pacifist), a fundamentalist sect originating in Scotland that is the real source of most of the silly pretrib-rapture end times fantasies of the Left Behind variety. The second is the evangelical Brethren groups (not pacifist), from the German Pietist tradition (a close cousin to Methodism and the Holiness movement) of which one of the largest denominations, the Evangelical United Brethren, merged into the United Methodist Church in the late 1960s. The third is the pacifist group, known as the Church of the Brethren. This is also a Pietist group originating in Germany, but which also embraced the teachings of Menno Simons - so in effect they are simultaneously a Holiness and an Anabaptist church.
- Those following the teachings of Leo Tolstoy, the Russian writer who embraced an anarchist Christianity and rejected all organized religion and government.
- Jesus People USA (JPUSA), a Chicago-based "hippie Christian" group that lives in the inner city and does good work among the poor. They also sponsored a magazine, Cornerstone (best known for debunking the false claims of Mike Warnke), and a rock band, the Resurrection Band (a/k/a Rez or the Rez Band) that exponentially outrocked Stryper any day of the week. Rez Band's music had a following among conservative evangelicals in the U.S. and was sold in Christian bookstores so U.S. evangelicals at least got a dose of pacifism to go with their creationism and end-times rapture fantasies. Rez even did a whole concept album on the subject, D.M.Z. in 1982.
- Sojourners magazine — theologically cut from the same stuff as JPUSA, in that they are evangelical, born-again, probably creationist and pro-life —and pacifist. A few people do take their Christian faith seriously instead changing their positions when politically convenient.
- The Catholic Worker movement of Dorothy Day, influenced by Distributism, anarchism, and the radical labor movement.
[edit] Fake Christian pacifists
- Jehovah's Witnesses — are pacifist except when it comes to the Battle of Armageddon, where they believe they will be called upon to cleanse the world for Jehovah through war. Except for that (which is obviously at some point in the distant future if ever), they refrain from any participation in warfare or other worldly political affairs. So you could say they are mostly pacifist.
- Roman Catholic Church — "Just war" theory often leads to opposition to most wars, but is not pacifism. The chief problem here is "just war" theory is entirely subjective. Anyone can declare any war just or unjust according to Catholic teachings simply by declaring it so.
- Community of Christ — this is the former Reorganized Latter Day Saints, which broke off from Mormonism and stayed in Missouri about the time Brigham Young took the Mormons to Utah. Not traditionally pacifist, they have been lately talking about peace, peace, peace more than any other issue - yet they appear to have little understanding of it beyond just using the word a lot. At best their pacifism is a recent innovation and rather shallow and undeveloped; at worst, it is a specious public relations stunt aimed at distancing themselves from their Mormon roots.
[edit] Cop-outs
- Pentecostals — the Assemblies of God and the Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee), which are the two largest Pentecostal denominations, both had pacifism written into their official statements of belief up until World War II. At which point they did a complete u-turn. Today both denominations, and most other Pentecostals, are full of the worst sort of pro-war cheerleaders and nuke-the-Middle-East fanatics. (The exception seems to be the snake handlers, who are the only Pentecostal group to hold on to the old time religion and still practice pacifism—but hey, when you're handling venomous serpents, you don't need to go to war to get your adrenaline fix!)
- Mormonism — they switched positions under pressure even earlier than the Pentecostals did, sometime in the mid 1800s. Today they make a big deal out of the fact that a "Mormon Brigade" made up of part of Brigham Young's pilgrimage to Utah fought in the Mexican War, and fail to mention that they originally had a position of refraining from participation in warfare. A few tiny Mormon splinter groups (such as the Church of Christ (Temple Lot)) maintain a pacifist stance [1] but don't expect anything like that out of Salt Lake City in this lifetime.
- Jesus Freaks or the Jesus Movement of the 1970s was originally made up of young people who had been part of the hippie counterculture, and had at least a tacit opposition to the Vietnam War. The trajectory this movement took toward becoming the core constituency of today's religious right is bizarre and could (and should) have an entire book written about it.
- The Worldwide Church of God, formerly led by Herbert W. Armstrong, was pacifist under Armstrong's watch but dropped that position like a hot rock (along with most of the rest of Armstrong's doctrines) after his death.
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Chalam
I think war is a waste, just like there is so much other waste in the world.
I agree with this
Matthew 5:9 (New International Version)
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.However, I do not think that wisdom says we should be overrun by every dictator there is. With that thinking will would all be Nazis and saying "heil Hitler" right now.
Anyhow, the peace Jesus brings is not that of this world
John 14:27 (New International Version)
27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
Until the Prince Of Peace comes, there will be no lasting peace, seven year road map included. All the best, Stephen -
PSacramento
Having served I can say this:
War should be the very last resort to ANYTHING.
God is not on any side of an armed conflict, God is on ALL SIDES of peace.
We make our wars and we have to fight them when there is no other choice, but lets not fight them under false pretences and say that "god is on our side", God is only on the side of Peace.
When we went in to Bosnia and the rest of the Balkans it was a "war" to save lives, innocent lives that were being destroyed, Genocide really, or at least an attempt at Genocide. It shouldn't have gotten to that point, Europe turned its back and because of that a war started and have to be dealt with.
We make our wars.