Can the elders disfellowship a person for using their own literature and scriptures in a way that makes them look bad to discipline a person? I am getting ready to send an email to my torn and tortured sister who is DF'd regarding the practice of it, how the WTBTS adopted it, and scriptural reasoning that show its a harmful practice at best. She is still convinced that she should try to be reinstated, and I am partially afraid she could print it and show it to the brothers. I just have to show this to her, she's too afraid to look into things herself, but I don't want to burn my own ass in the process
What do you think....can they???
If I were you, show them to her in person, not via email, she can have the printed info, be sure it is not traceable to you. If the elders talk to you about it, you can deny, deny, deny. Remember the two witness rule.
Yah, leave no trail.
Mail her a copy and sign it Ann Onymous
Anonymous snail mail is safer than email. Emails are often used to prove things in court. But in person or even over the phone would be best. Yes using the scriptures in a way that contradicts the WTS could land you in a JC.
Thanks everyone very much for the advice.....I'm sure if she were to use it, it'd just be yet another thing to use against me. I'll be sure to let ya know how it plays out. Thank you for the responses! I had a chuckle especially at the Ann Onymous
Can the elders disfellowship a person for using their own literature and scriptures in a way that makes them look bad to discipline a person?
Of course. They'll call it "causing divisions" or "apostasy" and out you go!
If your goal is to avoid being disfellowshipped, it's generally not a good idea to make the elders feel foolish. Granted, it's hard to avoid that, but if it's important not to be Df'ed, you should at least try.
I have been a servant of Jehovah for nearly 20 years and - I tell you - something is very wrong. I have never seen so much fear of displeasing the Elders or "The Organization" as I see now. It is almost as if fear of Jehovah has been replaced.
Because the "Elders" disfellowships someone out of the congregation does not mean that Jehovah casts them away as of no value. We are in error if we think this way. Let us not forget, all of us - Elders included - are imperfect.
True, I believe that certain ones should be removed from the congregation if they have an agenda of causing trouble. I am talking about disrupting the meetings and otherwise acting stupidly.
One should not be disfellowshipped for disagreeing with the WTBTS and thus unfairly being labeled an apostate. An apostate is defined by the WTBTS as someone who disagees with them - not necessarily the Bible.
I remember back in the 60's and 70's when JW smoked cigarettes and celebrated Christmas. I even remember when many Congregations were racially segregated. So, are we to label those back them who spoke out against the celebration of Christmas or Smoking or Segregation as apostates? That would be foolish.
I think the scripture at Acts 5:29 has been re-engineered for many of us and we are currently in a situation were we are engaged in a subtle form of idolatry for giving more promimence and fear to the WTBTS Organization than to the Most High God Jehovah Himself.
"... We must obey men as ruler rather than God."
We should not convince ourselves with the line "This is God's Organization" and the "Faithful Slave" is feeding us as an excuse. Of course the WTBTS is the tool Jehovah has used to dispense the Kingdom message and advertise Jehovah's name worldwide. But we should not confuse this with the fact that the organization is ran by imperfect men who have made mistakes in the past. They are no infallable.
Our focus should always be on the utterances of Jehovah. Reverent fear should be in Him alone - not men or the WTBTS.
This Sister you speak of looks to the WTBTS as if they hold the keys of life and death! (reinstatement and disfellowshipping). What is wrong with us? This belongs only to Jehovah and His Beloved Son Jesus.
If I were disfellowshipped tomorrow for unrepentent wrong-doing, I accept that. I believe this is neccessary to keep the congregation clean; and it is scriptural. But if I was disfellowshipped because I question a doctrinal issue (against what the WTBTS teaches), then I would rejoice and give Jehovah praise.
If it got to the point were the Brothers felt the need to put me out because I refused to submit to something I felt was in error, then this on on those Brothers - not me. I have not sinned. I have simply applied Bible principle to "test every inspired expression" to see if it measures up to what is written; and I have followed the course of the noble-minded men of Thessalonica at Acts 17:11.
I believe that anyone put out of the congregation for such reasons will have an accounting to Jehovah for treating his sheep harshly.
We have degraded to the point where independent thinking and examination is discouraged. We are intimidated. We fear the Elders will find out that we have such thoughts. This does not mean that one goes against everything; it means that sometimes what is being taught does not make sense or does not quite gell with what is written in the scriptures or breaks from Bible patterns.
Christendom tells it's flocks not to listen to us (JW). We, like Christendom, tell our flocks not to listen to a Brother or Sister who questions the WTBTS. Instead, we are conditioned to call that person an apostate not really knowing why we call them that.
I think we have become worshippers of the WTBTS and Jehovah is a name we know how to utter.
It has become our Golden Calf "representing" Jehovah. This is idolatry.
Sunrising, thank you for your comments, I appreciate you contributing to the thread. What you say confuses me though, on more than one instance you say that this Organization is Jehovahs channel for giving information. Then you say that if you questioned it, as should be your right (although discouraged to the point of being lableled apostate) and were disfellowshipped, you'd rejoice! Then where would that leave you? Away from Jehovahs only channel?? What then?
Of course people fear the elders more than Jehovah. When was the last time Jehovah himself came down and rebuked someone for not doing as they should? Not in our lifetimes. How many can sit at their computer and raise a hand that they know of someone the elder has punished. Keep em up if the DFing of such one was unjust, hasty, witch hunt, or uncalled for? I'd venture a guess that it's quite a few. So why are you surprised at the fear of the elders? They've elevated themselves as trial - judge - jury - and god...decision maker. But aren't they Spirit directed and appointed by jehovah? Who's in charge here?? Would Jehovah make mistakes? Can men read hearts, or does jehovah tell them?
An apostate is defined by the WTBTS as someone who disagees with them - not necessarily the Bible. That may be their 'definition', but is the correct one? Merriam Webster defines it differently as renouncing of ones faith, or abandonment of religious belief. So are they rewriting a dictionary too? Wonder what the release date on that one will be.
**Corrected for spelling and added a few more thoughts
My avoidance of being DF'd is really only a pipe dream. I have small and not so small children that I am allowing celebrations condemned by the WT. It's only a matter of time. my husband would like to fade, but i have a big mouth...so my avoidance would be in respect for him.