Confused over JW friend's behavior: (I'm not a JW)

by whyizit 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • whyizit

    I invited a JW friend of mine to a Christian retreat, and she did go. It was a small group. She seemed to enjoy herself. Even participated some. Never mentioned a thing about being a JW until she was ready to leave, when she briefly said something about her KH. No gasps or warnings about it being a "cult". Perhaps that is why she waited until the last minute to even bring it up.

    She was baptised a little over a year now. The only one of her friends or family that is involved. Now she is trying to have "studies" with us. I agreed, but only if we use the Bible only, no WTS literature. Loose promise on her part, because she conveniently brings notes from WT materials and down plays reading the Bible alone EVERY time! Can't do that, oh, no!

    Any way, she donated a pretty nice little sum to the group ministry of "Christendom" folks she spent the weekend with. The whole thing has me wondering: Is she in? Is she out? Or is she straddling the fence? Does this mean anything at all?

    SHe invited me to the KH, which I will go. (Don't worry, I am on to the whole mind control tactics and cult methods.)

    We are suppose to talk about the soul together. She defined it as " breathing physical body". Stating that no where in the Bible will I find "immortal soul" (yeah, but you don't find "paradise earth" either, but it doesn't stop JWs from spouting that a zillion times a day). She said the Bible will never indicate that the soul is anything other than a breathing body.

    Would love to hear your opinions and advice on this topic.


  • cantleave

    A good dub will never attend a gathering of folks from "Babylon the Great" so she is being disobedient and has commited a disfellowshipping offence.

  • Heaven

    Since your friend has only been baptized a little over a year now she may not know that going to a Christian retreat is against JW rules. However, she may also be looking for new recruits, which I suspect is the real truth. Since you've already agreed to do studies, she probably feels she is on the road to converting you.

    I think people justify their actions any way they see fit if the ends can justify the means. So if she's zealous, she may feel it is a feather in her cap to convert someone who is part of 'Christendom'. Either way, be careful. I'm glad you are aware of their mind control tactics. You may lose this friend though.

  • yknot

    Ditto Cantleave's comments....

    But the fact she tried to start studies is also telling....

    She thinks she is smarter then the slave.....

    I don't think I can help you with the rest because I don't believe in an immortal soul either. Frankly I thought the whole point of the scrolls were to keep track of what God thought was worthy notation about a person's life. Besides if yall are all up in heaven what exactly is the point of a resurrection later on?.... (I am not arguing or debating I am just saying as an active JW that it never much made sense to me in the bigger scheme of things to have a soul that was immortal.... and she might feel the same way, so maybe you can filter that into your presentation)

  • no more kool aid
    no more kool aid

    I don't think this girl, although baptised, is "in" hook line and sinker. First of all she is newly baptised ,no one else in her family is in the cult and she was so unaware of the rules that she went on this retreat with you, all good signs. She is probably just searching for big answers in life and thought she found it. She is someone that will be easier to convince to leave because she doesn't have huge ties of time and family. If she wants to study with "you" it will probably be a great chance for you to actually educate her, for every topic that comes up you can do your own research and refute, in a gentle way, what she is saying. Good for you for showing your concern for her. NMKA

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    I had a study once who would only use the Bible. I would look up all the scriptures in the jw study book and go through them as an outline. Impressed them and they did become a witness.

    So just saying, have what you want to talk about written down and the scriptures to support it ready too. A lot of people are impressed with the jws ability to come up with a scripture or two to support each belief.

    Keep your friend in one area of the Bible and study it in context. Otherwise, it will end up being a game of Bible hopscotch.

    Good luck.

  • Alwayshere

    Whyizit, I am not a JW but the Bible does show the soul dies. Genesis 2:7 "Man became a living soul." The soul can die because it is a person. Psalm 33:19 "to deliver their soul from death." James 5:20"shall save a soul from." Back to Genesis 2:7 Man did not live until he breathed and than "He became a living soul(or person). I have heard people say, when they went somewhere, I didn't see a living soul,meaning they did not see anyone.

  • AnnOMaly

    We are suppose to talk about the soul together. She defined it as " breathing physical body". Stating that no where in the Bible will I find "immortal soul" (yeah, but you don't find "paradise earth" either, but it doesn't stop JWs from spouting that a zillion times a day). She said the Bible will never indicate that the soul is anything other than a breathing body.

    ... Unless the person is one of the 144,000 class. You may want to ask her, 'When one of the 144,000 class dies and ceases to be a 'breathing body,' their 'soul' is dead, right? Since the member of the 144,000 never becomes a 'breathing physical body' or 'living soul' ever again, what exactly is resurrected (or 'stands up again') and is transferred into a spirit form?'

  • Farkel

    Sorry, but I don't believe a word you said.


  • whyizit

    Great advice! Especially about the 144,000. When we were discussing thi topic, I wish I had thought about that question. it was like a game of "who's on first". I kept asking where the Bible says their are two classes of Christians. Every where it says Saints or Holy Ones, that is the 144,000, was her reply. Where does Jesus say that the NT is only for the 144,000 mentioned in Rev.? That will become clearer as we study deeper... If the OT is for Jews, and the NT is for 144,000, where do YOU fit in at all? Seems none of the Bible was written for you, you would go through a lot less stress and work (like cleaning and building the "earthly paradise" with no power tools, for a bunch of non-JWs who did whatever they wanted, including slamming the door in your face), and YOU would STILL get the same reward as the rest of them anyway--Resurrection to earth. Except they would already have a nice home built for you when you get back. She didn't have much in defense of that.

    Something tells me she is getting a little disenchanted with the WTS. Whenever I ask what her favorite thing is about it, it usually revolves around lunch with the ladies. She has let it slip how boring the meetings are, and the assemblies. Maybe since she becamse baptized, she isn't getting the "love bombing" and feels more pressure. It seems to me that she is trying to find a connection outside of the WTS. Or at least trying to find someone she really likes to be in with her. She says she doesn't have many friendships in her own age bracket and finds it hard to make any.

    Though she seems to be very indoctrinated, she also seems very willing and interested in questions that seem to prove them wrong. Evidently someone got to her about the "cross vs. pole" argument. She didn't even seem interested in discussing it and dismissed it as being unimportant. Maybe to you, but it seems important to your religious leaders, because it is discussed in ever magazine you've ever handed me!

    Hmmm. I really don't know what to think. I'm hoping the thought process is kicking in and she is looking for a way out, even if it is subconsciously at this point.

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