Witness beliefs about their place in the religious firmament has its issues to be sure.......nothing in comparison to the ethical problems of the Fundamentalists.
If the WTS is not a False Prophet, what is it? surely the Bible identifies them as Apostates
^ Why discriminate? I think if a JWs leader lies not caring if people are hurt ot killed, they've joined the worst of whatever believers or non-believers and not those of either group who wouldn't do that.
any thoughts? may be active Dubs, I was having a nice chat with JanesyHull last night, wonder if she'll be back?
I am going with Isaacausitn......
(now when reading substitute Christ with the English translation of 'Christos'.....ANOINTED
24:23-28)23 “Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ (Anointed),’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs (Anointed) and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers (like in coming to the temple for inspection),’ do not believe it. 27 For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 28 Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Looking over the WTS past one has a hard time not concluding that it is a belief system that is long past it's expiration date.
The WTS. isn't just a false prophet its a commercialized false prophet, spearheaded by money and greed, a different kind of false prophet
dissimilar from what was around back in biblical times, nevertheless just as bad or more so then the ones back then .
The bible makes clear what one person is to do regarding these individuals are groups.
1 John 4 : 1
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
JOOKBEARD- I don't even actually consider the WTS a religion. I just consider them a commercialized mind control cult which appens to print books and magazines masquerading as a religion
Through out the WTS history it has claimed to be the only channel that God has selected to be his mouthpiece on Earth, it calls itself ; The Greater David, The Jonnadab Class, The Faithful and Discreet Slave, The Elijah Class, The Fulfillers of Trumpet Blasts in Revelation, so on and so forth.
I am not with the JWs, and on some of the points presented I agree with. However, I do not believe that one should project back on the WTS as it was in the days of Russell the later teachings of Joseph Rutherford. What Russell taught, and what the WTS was in the days of Russell, was totally different from the what Rutherford taught, and the WTS as Rutherford transformed it after Russell died.
Russell spoke nothing of, and did not believe in a "Watchtower organization."
What did Russell teach about "sole channel?" Absolutely nothing! A search through his works for the phrase "sole channel" produces absolutely nothing at all!
A search through Russell's writings for the phrase "only channel" shows that Russell believed that "only channel" between man and God is Jesus. Only once is the phrase "only channel" used of the Watch Tower, and then it is spoken of as being the only channel, not between God and man, but the as often the only channel by which Bible Students may be able to communicate with each other.
What did Russell teach about "the Greater David?" It should be obvious that Russell believed that the "greater David" was Jesus, not the Watch Tower, or any "Watchtower organization."
Likewise, a search through Russell writings for the phrase "Greater David" shows that Russell believed and taught that Jesus was the Greater David, in harmony with what the New Testament states.
Furthermore, Russell taught nothing about a "+Jehonadab +class".
Russell did speak of an Elijah class, but not in the same way that Rutherford and the JW leadership speak of such a class today.
For links that provide the above searches in the works of Russell, see:
(Please note that some results may include comments by others than Russell, which comments do not necessarily represent Russell's views.)
Nor did Russell believe in the "seven trumpets" in the manner described above. For a summary of what Russell taught concerning the seven trumpets, see Expanded Comments for Revelation chapters eight, nine and ten.
Russell, being a non-sectarian, did not believe in a human central authority or in any religious organization designed with such.
A quote from Russell:
I hold, and few, if any, will dispute it, that the one catholic or universal or general Church of Christ is the one mentioned
in the Bible--"the Church of the First-borns, written in Heaven." If this be admitted, my next proposition is that the Lord in Heaven records as members of His true Church all the saintly--whether Roman Catholics, Anglican Catholics, Greek Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.--and none others.
Have we not here the one Church, the Catholic Church, the universal, the only Church which the Bible recognizes?
Pastor Russell's Sermons, page 460
Another quote from Russell:
Some of the dear brethren seem to find as much about Brother Russell in the Bible as they find about the Lord Jesus, and I think that is a great mistake. I do not find it there. Some of them say that I am blinded on that subject, that they all can see better than I can. Perhaps they can, I do not know, but I think, dear friends, that there is a danger in that direction, and I would like to put you all on guard. I think it is the Lord's will that we should recognize every agency God uses, but we are not to recognize any agency of God as being in any competition whatever with the Lord or with his divine arrangement. He is the fountain of blessing, he only is most to be praised. I think that is the right sentiment. I believe you all agree with that. And yet I think there is a danger of some dear friends preaching Brother Russell. Brother Russell would like for you not to do so.
He thinks it would not be to the glory of God. Let me repeat, then, dear friends, that in my opinion we have so much of the Gospel of God, so much of his plan to study, so many opportunities of showing forth his praises, that we should employ all our time in that way. My advice, therefore, is that we give very little attention to anything outside of that.
-1910; ("Convention Report Sermons", pg. 125)
Yet from it's inception by CT Russel it promoted a unique brand of Biblical beliefs that were meant to be accepted as Bible truth, 1799 1874/1914, Miracle Wheat, The Pleiades Star Constellation, the Occult content found in The Studies in the Scriptures/Divine Plan of the Ages etc
Russell did teach 1799 as the beginning of the time of the end, and 1874 as beginning of Jesus' parousia, and 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times and beginning of the time of trouble. While not being dogmatic, I tend to agree with him on these dates. Russell, however, never made the acceptance of these dates mandatory for one to be accepted as a Christian, and he indeed stated that he could be wrong regarding the Bible chronolgy and/or his expectations regarding 1914 many times.
Russell never made a teaching out of Miracle Wheat, although he did present the possibility of this wheat as being a foregleam, an example, of God's Kingdom, of the plentitude that is foretold for that kingdom. There was nothing wrong with that, nor did Russell do any kind of wrong-doing related to "Miracle Wheat," as many falsely claim.
For more on Russell and Miracle Wheat, see:
Although Russell was not dogmatic about the Pleiades, he based the idea that Jehovah's throne could possibly be in, or that Jehovah ruled the material universe from, the Pleiades based on an astronomer's statement that the Pleiades was at the center of the universe, and KJV rendering which speaks of the "sweet influences" of the Pleiades, and thus from this, and some othr Bible verses, combined with the astonomer's statement, Russell concluded that this "sweet influence" must refer to Jehovah's influence emanating from that constellation.
From Smith's Dictionary:
The Hebrew word (cimah ) so rendered occurs in (Job 9:9; 38:31; Amos 6:8) In the last passage our Authorized Version has "the seven stars," although the Geneva version translates the word "Pleiades" as in the other cases. The Pleiades are a group of stars situated on the shoulder of the constellation Taurus. The rendering "sweet influences" of the Authorized Version, (Job 38:31) is a relic of the lingering belief in the power which the stars exerted over human destiny. But Schaff thinks the phrase arose from the fact that the Pleiades appear about the middle of April, and hence are associated with the return of spring, the season of sweet influences .
While I believe that Russell was in error regarding the Pleiades, I do not think that this error is any where as near as bad as the errors many others make who are often held in high esteem. While it appears that the phrase "sweet influences" is not a good translation, I cannot knowledgeably attribute the motive for this usage by the KJV translators either to an "lingering belief in the power which the stars exerted over human destiny" nor to any association with return of spring, since I do not know for sure why the KJV chose to put the words "sweet influences" in the verse.
I have found no "Occult content" in "The Studies in the Scriptures," not unless one might speak of the "mysteries" that are spoken of in the Bible as being "Occult Content."
i think the wts is just one of the many diversions a person may end up at.they have a handful of bible truths-but are overidden by their errors.