1930's Great Crowd - Still a "generation" problem?

by xelder 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • xelder

    The recent "generation" explanation redo says that the generation means the anointed living now, and we can still have more anointed, therefore there is no limit on how long the generation can run. This is an attempt to keep 1914 alive and healthy.

    However, the WTS still teaches that the great crowd began to be gathered in the 1930's (ex: Rutherford had people stand and said "Behold, the great multitude) Since Revelation defines the great crowd as coming out of the great tribulation, doesn't that create a life span problem? What is going through the minds of even the youngest baptized 10 year old members of the great crowd in 1935 who are now in there 80's.

    The Other sheep of John 10 seems to fit a discription of Gentiles. But, the WTS distinguishes Other sheep and great crowd with a slight difference. OS will live on earth, even if resurrected, but GC live through the great tribulation. So, maybe Rutherford should have said, "Behold.. a few of you little kids are part of the Great Multitude if you live well past your 80's"

    My point is, why do they still teach that the GC began to be gathered in the 1930's. It's getting to the point were their life span doesn't fit the definition. They seem to be always occupied with how prophesy applies to the annointed, but the GC generation isn't working either. Instead of counting the remaining memorial partakers. Let's just count how many OS/GC were baptized in the 1930's, because the end has to come before they die. Right?

  • OnTheWayOut

    JW's are supposed to accept the latest crap from WTS and keep their hope alive that they will live to see the Tribulation/Armageddon/Paradise without facing death. Every death causes discomfort for those that buy into this, especially the oldest ones.

    The older ones just generally settle for "nowhere else to go" if it disturbs them too much.

    Young ones are bailing out on this hope left and right and it doesn't confine itself to young ones. More and more who have been "in" for decades are tiring of waiting for the Great Tribulation. WTS might figure out that they need an end date and have a similar campaign to 1975. That one built momentum for quite awhile. I think 2014 is too soon and is only a symbolic number. They might focus on 2034, comparing the last days to the 120 years set by Jehovah before the flood.

  • JWoods

    It is of course completely illogical. However, given the mental numbness displayed by the rank & file, probably very few even noticed (and probably only near-apostates actually acknowledged or questioned) the change in "generation". The rest probably praised it as new food from Jehovah.

    This all stems from fundamental doctrinal falsehoods - one, the literal 144,000 being the only ones to go to heaven; two, the idea that the Christ's rule began in 1914 and that the generation thereof would see the ultimate end.

    Just the fact that the remnant of the 144,000 still partaking of the emblems refuses to go down in number shows the insanity of holding on to these idiotic ideas. Not to mention the fact that practically no one actually alive in 1914 and "able to discern the Watchtower ideas about it" is still alive. After all, the news media is now reporting that only ONE WW1 veteran still lives here in the U.S., and that the last survivor of the Titanic shipwreck died last summer in England - and she was a tiny baby on the "night to remember".

  • leavingwt


    If you're dead, you cannot (as an individual) 'come out' of the Great Tribulation.

    I suppose they'll simply say that as a "class", the Great Crowd will come out of the Great Tribulation.

  • JWoods

    And to just put the icing onto this crazy-cake, at the very same time (the exact same time) that the "Judge" Rutherford thought this up, they were also teaching that the "men of old in the Bible" were being resurrected and would be living with him in the Beverly Hills mansion.

    One might ask - how can you claim to be so irrefutably "right" on the 144,000, great crowd, and "generation" when you were also preaching this closely-related complete quacking nonsense at the very same time?

  • xelder

    I don't think the "class" argument would work. As soon as a person dies he is no longer of the GC class - he is now OS


  • xelder

    Maybe Rutherford should have said " Behold - the Other sheep" and made no reference to GC never having to die

  • Ultimate Reality
    Ultimate Reality

    This is a big problem for them and they know it. As discussed, they will likely force down some totally illogical "new light" on the matter. Those faithful to the Governing Body will obey. I think all this talk about fear of apostates and loyalty to the GB in recent Watchtowers is preparation for the new teachings that are needed for a new generation of Witnesses.

    The 1984 Survival book on page 185 says that God did not call the Great Crowd too soon...but the first ones called are dead.

  • TD
    Since Revelation defines the great crowd as coming out of the great tribulation, doesn't that create a life span problem?


    When the "Great multitude" was first identified in 1935, it was thought that the "Great tribulation" had already started with the Great war of 1914-1918. Therefore it was thought that the great multitude had already "Come out" of the great tribulation. In 1970, when the great tribulation was relocated to a point in time entirely in the future, it naturally became necessary to modify the great crowd doctrine slightly.

    Specifically, what had made the identification of this group possible in 1935 if the great tribulation had not yet started?

    The answer to that question was, "The proximity of the end."

    The result was a minor technical distinction in nomenclature. People on this side of the great tribulation were "Prospective" members of the great crowd. They would not technically be members of the great crowd in the full biblical sense until they had actually survived the great tribulation.

    This joined the great crowd doctrine to the pre 95 generation doctrine like a Siamese twin:

    "Especially beginning in 1935, when the identity of the "great multitude," or "great crowd," was clearly understood, large numbers of these began to manifest themselves. At first there were hundreds, then thousands, later hundreds of thousands, and now there are millions spread around the globe. God’s infallible Word depicts this group as ‘coming out of the great tribulation,’ being survivors of it, living right on into God’s New Order without ever having to die. (Revelation 7:9, 10, 14; John 11:26) The early members of this group are now in their 60’s or 70’s or older. Jehovah did not allow the ingathering of this group to begin too soon. The "great crowd," including many of the earliest members thereof, will survive into the "new earth."" (Survival Into A New Earth p.185 emphasis mine)

    This is one of the primary reasons why JW's teach that the heavenly hope was the only calling from Pentecost clear up until 1935. No one could even be a "Prospective" member of the great crowd in the year 1700 for example. No amount of wiggling is going to fix this.


  • blondie

    *** w07 5/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***In 1935 the "great crowd" of Revelation 7:9-15 was understood to be made up of "other sheep," Christians with an earthly hope, who would appear on the world scene in "the last days" and who as a group would survive Armageddon. (John 10:16; 2 Timothy 3:1; Revelation 21:3, 4)

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