"understand that I am he" Isaiah 43:10

by Chalam 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Chalam

    Isaiah 43:10 (New International Version)

    10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,
    "and my servant whom I have chosen,
    so that you may know and believe me
    and understand that I am he.
    Before me no god was formed,
    nor will there be one after me.

    Now every JW will take pride in this verse, believing that they are "Jehovah's Witnesses", telling all who will listen that Jesus is not God but "a god", the angel Michael.

    I have mentioned the irony in the last part of the verse before "Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me" which clearly shows that God did not create Jesus, the servant mentioned in the second line.

    Also, here is the clincher, in the third line "and understand that I am he", the Father makes it plain that He is the servant.

    It is amazing how JWs can read the bible and still not see that Jesus and the Father are one John 10:30 Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is God with us Matthew 1:23, Jesus is the exact representation image of the invisible God Hebrews 1:3 and equal to God Philippians 2:6

    All the best, Stephen
  • bluecanary

    Stephen, does that mean that he also didn't create the "god of this age" who has "blinded the minds of the unbelievers?" Is 2 Corinthians 4:4 referring to Satan or someone else? In any case it uses the term "god" so unless it's referring to someone in the Godhead, it would negate your argument. Set me straight, please.

  • Narkissos

    I think you are misreading the (English) text of Isaiah in a way the translator(s) never thought of (but translators often underestimate their readers... :))

    "I am he" ('ani hu') does not refer to the "servant": in that phrase as used in Dt-Isaiah (cf. 41:4; 43:13; 46:4; 48:12; 52:6) "he" doesn't stand for any particular predicate (I am this or that), the whole phrase is an absolute self-affirmation of Yhwh (which the LXX translates as egô eimi, "I am," which becomes a Christological self-affirmation in John). Here "my servant" parallels "my witnesses", just as in 48:12 "Jacob" parallels "Israel" and the next "I am he" doesn't refer to either...

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007

    Chalam you have amazingly poor biblical reasoning. "I and the Father are One" .....Jesus man are you only 14 years old!

  • designs

    Chalam- one of the more superstitious fundamentalists on the block.

    Dragons and curses and pits of fire oh my!

  • glenster

    The "god" Satan doesn't make for polytheism. He's not meant as a god God
    created but that people created--a false god. Around the time of Isaiah, the
    Canaanite idea of belief in valid gods with a main God, reflected in some earli-
    er OT verses, was being changed with an emphasis of one God who created no other
    god, and no god was with him in creation. By the first century, Jews showed
    their belief in the one God with prayer, worship, and the Shema. You wouldn't
    worship/show obeisance to a "god," pray to him (Stephen, Paul when he con-
    verted), make him the Lord of the one God one Lord Shema (Paul), lose doubt
    and show recognition of him with the Shema (Thomas), etc.

  • Chalam

    OK the whole chapter so we can consider the verse in context and who "I am he" is referring to and more important if Jesus and the Father are one.

    Isaiah 43 (New International Version)

    Isaiah 43
    Israel's Only Savior

    1 But now, this is what the LORD says—
    he who created you, O Jacob,
    he who formed you, O Israel:
    "Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
    I have summoned you by name; you are mine.

    2 When you pass through the waters,
    I will be with you;
    and when you pass through the rivers,
    they will not sweep over you.
    When you walk through the fire,
    you will not be burned;
    the flames will not set you ablaze.

    3 For I am the LORD, your God,
    the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
    I give Egypt for your ransom,
    and Seba in your stead.

    Who is the LORD, your God?

    The Holy One is Jesus Mark 1:24 Luke 1:35 John 6:69 Acts 2:27

    The Saviour is Jesus Titus 1:4 Titus 2:13 Titus 3:6 2 Peter 1:1

    4 Since you are precious and honored in my sight,
    and because I love you,
    I will give men in exchange for you,
    and people in exchange for your life.

    5 Do not be afraid, for I am with you;
    I will bring your children from the east
    and gather you from the west.

    6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!'
    and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.'
    Bring my sons from afar
    and my daughters from the ends of the earth-

    7 everyone who is called by my name,
    whom I created for my glory,
    whom I formed and made."

    Who created us? The "LORD, your God"?

    Jesus John 1:3 John 1:10 1 Corinthians 8:6 Hebrews 1:2

    8 Lead out those who have eyes but are blind,
    who have ears but are deaf.

    9 All the nations gather together
    and the peoples assemble.
    Which of them foretold this
    and proclaimed to us the former things?
    Let them bring in their witnesses to prove they were right,
    so that others may hear and say, "It is true."

    10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,

    We are witnesses to whom? The "LORD, your God"?

    Jesus Acts 1:8 1 Peter 5:1 Acts 1:22 Acts 2:32 Acts 26:16

    "and my servant whom I have chosen,
    so that you may know and believe me
    and understand that I am he.
    Before me no god was formed,
    nor will there be one after me.

    11 I, even I, am the LORD,
    and apart from me there is no savior.

    12 I have revealed and saved and proclaimed—
    I, and not some foreign god among you.
    You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "that I am God.

    13 Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
    No one can deliver out of my hand.
    When I act, who can reverse it?"

    God's Mercy and Israel's Unfaithfulness

    14 This is what the LORD says—
    your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel:
    "For your sake I will send to Babylon
    and bring down as fugitives all the Babylonians,
    in the ships in which they took pride.

    15 I am the LORD, your Holy One,
    Israel's Creator, your King."

    Who is Israel's King? The "LORD, your God"?

    Jesus Matthew 2:2 Matthew 27:11 Matthew 27:29 Matthew 27:37

    16 This is what the LORD says—
    he who made a way through the sea,
    a path through the mighty waters,

    17 who drew out the chariots and horses,
    the army and reinforcements together,
    and they lay there, never to rise again,
    extinguished, snuffed out like a wick:

    18 "Forget the former things;
    do not dwell on the past.

    19 See, I am doing a new thing!
    Now it springs up; do you not perceive it?
    I am making a way in the desert
    and streams in the wasteland.

    20 The wild animals honor me,
    the jackals and the owls,
    because I provide water in the desert
    and streams in the wasteland,
    to give drink to my people, my chosen,

    21 the people I formed for myself
    that they may proclaim my praise.

    22 "Yet you have not called upon me, O Jacob,
    you have not wearied yourselves for me, O Israel.

    23 You have not brought me sheep for burnt offerings,
    nor honored me with your sacrifices.
    I have not burdened you with grain offerings
    nor wearied you with demands for incense.

    24 You have not bought any fragrant calamus for me,
    or lavished on me the fat of your sacrifices.
    But you have burdened me with your sins
    and wearied me with your offenses.

    25 "I, even I, am he who blots out
    your transgressions, for my own sake,
    and remembers your sins no more.

    26 Review the past for me,
    let us argue the matter together;
    state the case for your innocence.

    27 Your first father sinned;
    your spokesmen rebelled against me.

    28 So I will disgrace the dignitaries of your temple,
    and I will consign Jacob to destruction
    and Israel to scorn.

    I have highlighted a few points from the chapter. There are more.

    For me there is overwhelming evidence that Jesus "and the Father are one", that Jesus is God "with us" to say that Jesus is "my Lord and my God".

    For JWs there will never be enough evidence until the WT has "new light" on the matter. As it is, the darkness is getting darker and darker. Jesus was to be worshipped and equal to God according to the WT. Now they have demoted Him to being "a god", and a created being :(

    All the best,


  • Chalam

    Hi BC,

    Stephen, does that mean that he also didn't create the "god of this age" who has "blinded the minds of the unbelievers?" Is 2 Corinthians 4:4 referring to Satan or someone else? In any case it uses the term "god" so unless it's referring to someone in the Godhead, it would negate your argument. Set me straight, please.

    Paul answers this point directly. Obviously there were issues then with the Greek language and understand theos (God) and kurios (Lord) just as JWs ahve today.

    1 Corinthians 8:5-7 (New International Version)

    5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    7 But not everyone knows this.

    All the best,


  • Lillith26

    Jesus is one name in a long list of jewish men to claim that he was 'the he'- from the book of Isaiah;

    List of Jewish messiah claimants

    am I too assume that only one of these men had a vaild claim? shoot! if I had a penis I could make claim also LOL

  • Chalam

    I agree

    Luke 21:8 (New International Version)

    8 He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.

    2 John 1:7 (New International Version)

    7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    1 John 2:18-20 (New International Version)

    Warning Against Antichrists
    18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

    20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.

    Absurd how the WT claim the last few verses but go directly against verse 20 and say "you do not have an anointing, that is only for 144 000"!

    No, the truth is verse 19, Charles Taze Russell went out from us but did not really belong to us around 1879.

    All the best,


Share this