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You can lie to apostates but not the elders - Aug 23 study WT
by Mickey mouse 39 Replies latest watchtower bible
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brinjen
I love the illustration of Jesus with the Pharisees... he was up front about his refusal to answer the question... that's quite different from outwardly lying or 'not disclosing every detail'.
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WTWizard
One should refuse to give the hounders an answer at all, since all they are going to do is make problems where none existed (including imagining sins that were not even committed). And they are going to give advice that does not work--and hound when you do not take it because it is obviously not good advice. This goes for anyone (even the government) that intends to use the truth for nefarious purposes.
However, telling the truth to expose real wrongdoing to proper authorities is always good. If one knows there is pedophile activity in the congregation or that there are hidden files that the hounders are probably going to destroy to prevent being brought to justice, one should then tell the whole truth, to the best of their ability and knowledge. Especially if the legal problem is not a technical problem but a serious injustice that is causing real damage to society.
And telling the truth to apostates is advised, so long as those apostates are not going to use it for nefarious purposes (such as committing their own injustices). If they are going to expose the truth to outsiders so that people can cross-reference the religion before joining, the truth should be told as best as possible. And definitely, the public deserves to be told the whole truth to make a fair decision about joining the religion--even children that are supposed to be getting baptized by their 6th birthday. Note that apostates are much less likely to use the truth about an issue for nefarious purposes than active witlesses, particularly those with positions of responsibility and desiring to stay there.
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RubaDub
I am really missing the boat here? I don't understand the premise of this thread.
I don't see anything in the WT about lying ... I only see that Jesus withheld information ... and even stated so. He didn't lie to them. He didn't tell them something false. He just refused to give them an answer.
In my mind, that is totally different from lying.
Rub a Dub
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isaacaustin
right rub a dub, yet the WT will push it and say Jesus himself engaged in theocratic warfare strategy.
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Finally-Free
I agree that people should be careful with personal information, but especially with elders. In my case, EVERY instance of misuse of my personal information was performed by elders. I even had an elder go to my workplace once to talk trash about me to my boss. They didn't realize that I overheard part of the conversation. I didn't hear what the elder said, but I overheard my boss give him bloody hell. There were several other times I found out about elders trying to trash my reputation over the years.
The one thing elders never did was grow enough balls to come and say something derogatory to my face. They would much rather manipulate behind the scenes, which is the preferred method of pant shitting cowards.
I would sooner trust the sleaziest porn site with my personal information than any JW elder.
W
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parakeet
Watchtower: "Paul likewise indicated that some people may not be entitled to receive a full or complete answer."
Wonder who those "some people" may be. Must included judges and lawyers. Dubs routinely omit pertinent information while under oath in depositions or in court.
When you're sworn in as a witness, you're required to tell the truth, the WHOLE TRUTH, and nothing but the truth. In legal matters, if one OMITS information that is RELEVANT to the case at hand, that one commits perjury -- LYING -- a felony punishable by imprisonment.
The WTS's and dubs' version of truthfulness does not even equal that of a "wordly" court of law.
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meangirl
Yeah like for instance when a witness is out in the field ministry and somebody asks about the NGO involvement, pedophelia cases, etc. A witness can elect not to give the "whole details" but those wonderful little half truths....... Sure makes sense but how ironic they like to give out FULL details of other religions and their involvement with politics and pedophelia........ It's pick and choose folks, pick and choose! Gotta love the logic or should say lack of logic......
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bluecanary
Jesus decision to not respond to hypocritical religious leaders would be analogous to dubs not responding to the elders rather than "worldly" authorities.
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Big Tex
Show me one scripture where Jesus told a lie.
A Christian should follow the example of Jesus. If Jesus told a lie, even when faced with Satan himself, it logically follows it is okay for a Christian to do so.
If not . . . .