Did Israel Know in Advance?

by teejay 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • teejay
    teejay

    Et Tu, Israel? - Did The Israelis Have Advance Warning?
    By Justin Raimondo

    12-15-1

    "People ask why Americans tend to sympathize more with Israelis than Palestinians. It's not racism. It's a recognition that, for all their failings, the Israelis live in the same moral universe as we do. The Palestinians palpably, brazenly do not."

    About 60 or so Israelis have been held by the US since 9/11 in what Fox News calls "part of a long-running effort to spy on American government officials." While "there is no indication the Israelis were involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, investigators suspect that they may have gathered intelligence about the attacks in advance and not shared it." If the Israelis had foreknowledge of the 9/11 attacks, and failed to inform us, then just what moral universe are they living in? Surely one many light-years from our own.

    Initially it was said that the Israelis being held here were only "observing a time-honored tradition in their country - touring the world after their mandatory service in the Israeli military." Now we know that some of the detainees have been identified as Israeli military or intelligence agents, and that some failed polygraph tests when asked whether they had engaged in covert operations "against and in the United States." We also know, courtesy of Fox News, that as many as 140 Israeli agents may have been rounded up in the US before 9/11: the extent of Israel's covert action operation is described as "sprawling."

    What were they doing here? Besides infiltrating a whole laundry list of government agencies, including the DEA, the FBI, military bases, and even targeting the private homes of government officials, they were also conducting surveillance on a group of Arab immigrants in California that authorities believe have connections to the 9/11 plot.

    In rounding up untold hundreds of mostly Arab Muslim men, and interviewing thousands more, the Ashcroft Sweep is clearly designed to gather information that might lead them to the remaining conspirators. It could be that some of the detained Israelis fall into this category: while not being directly involved, maybe they know something.

    What did they know, and when did they know it? That is the question that must now be answered, and pronto. For remember what the President said: "You are either with us, or you are with the terrorists." If the Israelis had advance notice of 9/11 - via their spy network in the US, which kept the hijackers and their associates under surveillance - then this is "harboring" terrorists, by any definition of the term. Look what happened to the Taliban when they harbored bin Laden. If Israel did indeed betray us, and let 3,500 people die at the World Trade Center, then they deserve what the Afghanis got plus a little bit more.

    At least Mullah Omar and the Taliban never made any bones about the depth of their contempt for the US. Israel, on the other hand, pretends to be our staunchest ally, more royalist than the king when it comes to confronting the declared enemies of the West. Yet an undeclared enemy, posing as a friend, is in many ways a greater potential threat - as, perhaps, we are beginning to learn.
    ------------------

    Source: http://www.rense.com/general18/et.htm

  • bigboi
    bigboi
    If Israel did indeed betray us, and let 3,500 people die at the World Trade Center, then they deserve what the Afghanis got plus a little bit more.

    It'll never happen. Like it or not the U.S. is inextricably linked with Israeli interests in Palestine. IMO, the Israli conflict is just a proxy for the Western/US foothold in the Middle East. American interests arenow being expanded in that region with military presence in Saudia Arabia and most recently Afghanistan and the Caspain Sea Region. The latter currently is suspected of being the last significant reserves of fossil fuels in the world. Regardless of what the Israeli connection to 9/11 is, the US will never abandon it's friedship with Israel. This isssue will probably just be quietly swept under the rug.

    ONE....

    bigboi

    "it's like the one thing we all have in common is that we
    got played by a cult and a bunch of old men and no matter what it will
    always be a part of us no matter how much we distance ourselves from it"
    ~ Ghostquote

  • teejay
    teejay

    Bigboi,

    Of course the U.S. will never honor it's words -- that nations who are for/give any kind of support/refuge to the terrorists are enemies of the U.S. -- especially if that pronouncement ends up targeting Israel (or Saudi ariabia, for that matter).

    Interesting that you would mention the Caspian Sea Region, however. Check THIS out:
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    General Hameed Gul was director general of the Pakistani Intelligence Services ISI (Inter-Services Intelligence) and a close ally of America, working hand in hand with the American CIA. Gul was also a great supporter of the "American Way Of Life" and Western democracy. General Gul turned against America for betrayal and countless broken promises.

    Gul contends bin Laden had nothing to do with the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, saying instead that they were the work of the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service -- a version of events that has been endorsed by Islamic fundamentalist clerics and is widely accepted by Muslims throughout the Arab world.

    Here is the transcript (UPI United Press International, Sep. 26, 2001) of the exclusive interview Gul gave to Arnaud de Borchgrave, United Press International editor at large:

    De Borchgrave: So who did back Sept. 11?
    Mossad and its accomplices. The U.S. spends $40 billion a year on its 11 intelligence agencies. That's $400 billion in 10 years. Yet the Bush Administration says it was taken by surprise. I don't believe it. Within 10 minutes of the second twin tower being hit in the World Trade Center CNN said Osama bin Laden had done it. That was a planned piece of disinformation by the real perpetrators. It created an instant mindset and put public opinion into a trance, which prevented even intelligent people from thinking for themselves.

    So you're already convinced bin Laden didn't do it?
    I know bin Laden and his associates. They are graduates of the best universities and are highly intelligent with impressive degrees and speak impeccable English. These are people who have rediscovered fundamental Islamic values. Many come from the Gulf countries where ruling royal families have generated hatred by the way they flout divine law, wasting billions on gratifying their whims, jetting around in large private jets by themselves, and sailing the Mediterranean in big private boats for weeks on end. Osama's best recruits come from feudal areas that are U.S. protectorates and where millions of poor people are seeking human dignity. I have even visited a Christian convent school in Murree, 60 miles from here, where my 13-year-old daughter is studying. The young girls there have told me Osama is their hero. Osama's followers identify with Mujahideen freedom fighters wherever they are defending Islam and its values.

    So what makes you think Osama wasn't behind Sept. 11?
    From a cave inside a mountain or a peasant's hovel? Let's be serious. Osama inspires countless millions by standing up for Islam against American and Israeli imperialism. He doesn't have the means for such a sophisticated operation.

    Why Mossad?
    Mossad and its American associates are the obvious culprits. Who benefits from the crime? The attacks against the twin towers started at 8:45 a.m. and four flights are diverted from their assigned air space and no air traffic controller sounds the alarm. And no Air Force jets scramble until 10 a.m. That also smacks of a small scale Air Force rebellion, a coup against the Pentagon perhaps? Radars are jammed, transponders fail. No IFF -- friend or foe identification -- challenge. In Pakistan, if there is no response to IFF, jets are instantly scrambled and the aircraft is shot down with no further questions asked. This was clearly an inside job. Bush was afraid and rushed to the shelter of a nuclear bunker. He clearly feared a nuclear situation. Who could that have been?

    At this point, someone might be asking what you've been smoking. What is Israel's interest in such a monstrous plot, which, of course, no one believes except Islamist extremists who concocted this piece of disinformation in the first place, presumably to detract from the real culprits?
    Jews never agreed to Bush 41 (George H.W. Bush, the 41st president) or 43 (his son George W. Bush, the 43rd president). They made sure Bush senior didn't get a second term. His land-for-peace pressure in Palestine didn't suit Israel. They were also against the young Bush because he was considered too close to oil interests and the Gulf countries. Bush senior and Jim Baker had raised $150 million for Bush junior, much of it from Mideast sources or their American go-betweens. Bush 41 and Baker, as private citizens, had also facilitated the new strategic relationship between Saudi Arabia and Iran. I have this from sources in both countries. So clearly the prospect of a Bush 43 was a potential danger to Israel.

    Jews were stunned by the way Bush stole the election in Florida. They had put big money on Al Gore. Israel has given its imperialist guardian parent opportunities to turn disaster into a pretext for imposing an all-encompassing military, political and economic agenda to further the cause of global capitalism. While Colin Powell is cautious and others are reckless and want to make up for their failure to defeat Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War 10 years ago, the global agenda is the same.

    Israel knows it has a short shelf-life before it is overwhelmed by demographics. It is a state that was born in terrorism that terrorized Palestinians into the exile of refugee camps, where they have now subsisted in squalid refugee camps, and is now very much afraid of Pakistan's nuclear capability.

    Israel has now handed the Bush family the opportunity it has been waiting for to consolidate America's imperial grip on the Gulf and acquire control of the Caspian basin by extending its military presence in Central Asia. Bush conveniently overlooks -- or is not told -- the fact that Islamic fundamentalists got their big boost in the modern age as CIA assets in the covert campaign I was also involved with to force the Soviets out of Afghanistan. Bush senior was vice president during that entire campaign. And no sooner did he become president on Jan. 20, 1989, than he summoned an inter-agency intelligence meeting and issued an order, among several others, to clip the wings of ISI (Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence) that had been coordinating the entire operation in Afghanistan. I know this firsthand as I was DGISI at the time (director general, ISI).

    So how do you read U.S. strategy in Pakistan?
    A: The destabilization of Pakistan is part of the U.S. plan because it is a Muslim nuclear state. The U.S. wants to isolate Pakistan from China as part of its containment policy. President Nixon's book "The Real War" said China would be the superpower of the 21st Century. The U.S. is also creating hostility between Pakistan and Afghanistan, two Muslim states to reverse the perception that the Islamic world now has its own nuclear weapons. Bush 43 doesn't realize he is being manipulated by people who understand geopolitics. He is not leading but being led. All he can do is think in terms of the wanted-dead-or-alive culture, which is how Hollywood conditions the masses to think and act.

    All summer long we heard about America's shrinking surplus and that the Pentagon would not have sufficient funds to modernize for the 21st century. And now, all of a sudden, the Pentagon can get what it wants without any Democratic Party opposition. How very convenient! Even your cherished civil liberties can now be abridged with impunity to protect the expansion of the hegemony of transnational capitalism. There is now a new excuse to crush anti-globalization protests.

    Bush 43 follows Bush 41. Iraq was baited into the Kuwaiti trap when the U.S. told Saddam it was not interested in his inter-Arab squabbles. Two days later, he moved into Kuwait, which was an Iraqi province anyway before the British Empire decreed otherwise. Roosevelt baited the Pearl Harbor trap for the Japanese empire, which provided the pretext for entering World War II.

    And now the Israelis have given the U.S. the pretext for further expansion into an area that will be critical in the next 25 years - the Caspian basin.
    --------------------------------------

    source: http://www.11september.20m.com/hameed_gul.htm

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Hmmm......

    Interesting read there teejay. It's good to see how others are viewing this situation. I think most of it is just rhetoric, though. He seems to be implying that the US and Pres. Bush are puppets for Israel. I don't see the plausiblity in that.

    I do think that situations are allowed to fester in hopes of a blowup as he alludes too with the Iraqi situation and the possible US manipulation of Pakistan and Afghanistan. However, the details don't really matter. The US has always wanted more of a say in what goes on in the Middle East. Israel is still the main and our best ally there. However, we are now on the verge of virtually controlling and preventing several volatile nations and one possible superpower from controlling the most important source of fossil fuels probably left on the planet.

    As the Queen of Soul once sang "Who's Zoomin who"? or she may have said foolin....I dunno.

    ONE......

    bigboi

    bigboi

    "it's like the one thing we all have in common is that we
    got played by a cult and a bunch of old men and no matter what it will
    always be a part of us no matter how much we distance ourselves from it"
    ~ Ghostquote

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    It wouldn't surprise me if Israel had advance knowedge, for two reasons:

    1. All nations spy on all other nations. The U.S., for instance, used it's Echelon technology to do industrial espionage on behalf of U.S. corporations against foreign nations. That's the way the game is played, folks. Allies spy on allies for whatever competitive advantage they can get. So am I surprised that Israel was spying on the U.S.? Of course not. I knew that a long time ago.

    2. The F.B.I. had advance notice of the WTC attacks, but didn't do anything because they didn't get around to reading what they had captured until the attacks had already occurred. For those who argue that we need new laws to capture terrorists, remember that under the existing laws the F.B.I. already had enough information to capture the 9/11 terrorists and didn't do a thing -- because they didn't get around to the information in time. Now if the F.B.I. had advanced warning about 9/11, what would prevent Israeli spies from also capturing this information?

  • picosito
    picosito

    If November 1963 was an inside job why not 9/11? When it comes to world politics, seems anything goes.

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    teejay,

    I have a problem with that quote. The interviewee claims that Israel doesn't like Bush Jr. and hated to see him steal the election. Then at the end it says that the reason Israel orchestrated these events was to give Bush the chance to consolidate power in the Caspian basin. Those two things don't connect -- either they want to weaken Bush, or they want to strengthen him, not both. They didn't like him becoming President, but they do something guaranteed to make him more popular.

    Before 9/11, Bush had little chance of being reelected. Now he's got a shot. I can see how the conservatives benefited more than their wildest dreams by 9/11, but to suggest that they were in on it is more than I choose to go without better evidence.

    I will grant you that on 9/11 I wondered why it took so long for the Air Force to act. And as I said earlier in this thread, the F.B.I. had information in their possession about the attacks in advance, but claim they didn't get around to reading it in time. That could be a lie, of course. But I'm hesitant to assign conspiracies unless I have much better evidence.

  • teejay
    teejay

    I don't believe everything I read, but I find the following two articles very interesting.

    I haven't heard anything about Israelis being detained here in the U.S. until reading this. Thanks to Tallyman here on JW.com, soon after Sept. 11 I DID learn that some Israelis in NYC were seen cheering as the planes hit the WTC, though. This group was detained. ( http://www.theneworder.org/news/5detained.htm )

    Now... look at the date of the second article referenced below: September 17. A month in advance, Israel warned that the U.S. was under threat of imminent attack. How did they know? If they did, they knew because (according to the first story) Israelis were already in this country, tapping phones, tracking the terrorist network they already new about.

    All true? Who knows, but it's plausible to me.

    As far as what Gen. Gul said above in the interview, I don't believe every word but some of it makes too much sense.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    U.S. Police and Intelligence Hit by Spy Network
    Charles R. Smith
    Wednesday, Dec. 19, 2001

    Spies Tap Police and Government Phones

    In the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attack, the FBI has stumbled on the largest espionage ring ever discovered inside the United States. The U.S. Justice Department is now holding nearly 100 Israeli citizens with direct ties to foreign military, criminal and intelligence services.

    The spy ring reportedly includes employees of two Israeli-owned companies that currently perform almost all the official wiretaps for U.S. local, state and federal law enforcement.

    The U.S. law enforcement wiretaps, authorized by the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), appear to have been breached by organized crime units working inside Israel and the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad.

    Both Attorney General John Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller were warned on Oct. 18 in a hand-delivered letter from local, state and federal law enforcement officials. The warning stated, "Law enforcement's current electronic surveillance capabilities are less effective today than they were at the time CALEA was enacted."

    The spy ring enabled criminals to use reverse wiretaps against U.S. intelligence and law enforcement operations. The illegal monitoring may have resulted in the deaths of several informants and reportedly spoiled planned anti-drug raids on crime syndicates.
    -------

    source: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/12/18/224826.shtml

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Mossad warned CIA of attacks – report
    By Douglas Davis

    LONDON (September 17) - Mossad officials traveled to Washington last month to warn the CIA and the FBI that a cell of up to 200 terrorists was planning a major operation, according to a report in the Sunday Telegraph here yesterday.

    The paper said the Israeli officials specifically warned their counterparts in Washington that, "large-scale terrorist attacks on highly visible targets on the American mainland were imminent." They offered no specific information about targets, but they did link the plot to Afghanistan-based terrorist Osama bin Laden, and they told the Americans there were "strong grounds" for suspecting Iraqi involvement.

    A US administration official told the paper that it was "quite credible" that the CIA did not heed the Mossad warning: "It has a history of being over-cautious about Israeli information." But the official noted that, "if this is true, then the refusal to take it seriously will mean heads will roll."
    -------

    Source: http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/17/News/News.34954.html

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    Now... look at the date of the second article referenced below: September 17. A month in advance, Israel warned that the U.S. was under threat of imminent attack. How did they know?

    Same way the U.S. knew weeks in advance about a warning of possible terrorist action -- espionage. Of course, the U.S. got a number of those warnings over the past few years, most of which turned out to be not true. This one, of course, turned out to be true.

    I read articles before 9/11 listing warnings about bin Laden operations in the weeks to come, but they were buried in the news as always. Those types of warnings happen all the time, and usually don't pan out.

  • Dino
    Dino

    That website "theneworder" is too weird for me!

    Dino

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