Am I a trinitarian ?

by PSacramento 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  PSacramento
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  PSacramento

  I have to remeber NOT to hit enter when I start a thread...

  Anyways, I have always views the trinity as a description of the relationship between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

  I do NOT view the trinity as sciptural but interpretive and not as a basis for salvation.

  I do view things this way:

  There is ONE God, Jesus is the Son of God and the Holy Spirit is God's active spirit with all his qualities, I believe that God is Manifiested in Jesus and the HS and that they are all that God is.

  I believe that Jesus is our saviour and our mediator between Us ( ALL of us) and God and that we come to know Jesus and God Via the HS which God sends through Jesus.

  I believe that we are all under God's grace through his son Jesus via the HS.

  Am I a Trinitarian?
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  leavingwt

  I believe that God is Manifiested in Jesus and the HS and that they are all that God is.

  Is that modalism?

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism

  If you're a Trinitarian, you believe that there is ONE god, but THREE persons. (The Holy Spirit is a Person, by definition, if you are a Trinitarian.)
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  NeonMadman

  Modalists believe, in essence, that God puts on different "masks" at different times, appearing as Father, Son or Holy Spirit as the occasion demands, but that there is only one Person who is God. Trinitarians believe that there are three distinct Persons who comprise the one Being known as God.

  Whether you are Trinitarian depends on how you define your terms. For example, when you say that "the Holy Spirit is God's active spirit with all his qualities," do you include the quality of personality? It does seem hard to imagine that something or someone who has emotions, intellect and will (all of which are attributed to the Holy Spirit in the Bible) could be less than personal. Also, when you say that Jesus is the Son of God, do you mean that in the ontological sense that has been understood by Christians for 2000 years, i.e., that He is God Himself by nature, as the son of a man is human by nature? Or do you understand "Son" as the JW's do, to mean a created being who derives his life from a Father?

  JW's often make the mistake of confusing modalism for Trinitarianism, which is why they ask questions like, "whom did Jesus pray to," or "who ran the universe while Jesus was dead for 3 days?" The WTS also has deliberately muddied the issue by referring to the Trinity as a teaching of "three gods." It's no wonder JW's find the doctrine confusing.
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  Narkissos

  Imo, technically (and by those statements) you are an economical Trinitarian. One who confesses the so-called "economical Trinity" as composed of the Father of Jesus-Christ, the Son as the incarnate Jesus-Christ, and the Spirit in its operation among believers (and more broadly the world). Which classical theology distinguishes from the "ontological Trinity" which is to be thought apart from its "external works," i.e. apart from incarnation and salvation history in general. A distinction that many modern theologians, such as Karl Barth, have radically questioned.
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  Deputy Dog

  NeonMadMan

  The WTS also has deliberately muddied the issue by referring to the Trinity as a teaching of "three gods." It's no wonder JW's find the doctrine confusing.

  I agree. They like to tell people who and what God isn't, when they have no idea who or what he is.
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  PSacramento

  I believe that the HS is a person in the sense that it has defineing characteristics that shows "personality", ie: feels sad, happy, teaches, rejoices, etc.

  I don't think the HS exists as a seperate "individual" as Jesus did at one point.

  I think God can manifest himself as either of the 3 personalities, God is omnipotent so he can pretty do whatever he wants, so in that case all 3 are God and God is all 3.

  I never viewed the trinity as 3 Gods or anythign like that, but I don't agree that Jesus is God, though I agree that all the Jesus is, God is but not all the God is, Jesus is, at least not in a total sense.
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  leavingwt

  PS,

  As best as I can tell, you must believe that the Holy Ghost is a person, to be a Trinitarian (in the strictest sense).

  The good news? Most churches don't care. It's not a litmust test. (WT is obsessed with things like the Trinity. They seemingly define themselves by what they DON'T believe. "That's against my religion", etc.)

  If you were to poll your self-described Christian co-workers and friends, you would discover a wide variety of belief. You'll also discover that many church members are ignorant of their particular denomination's exact beliefs.

  Don't sweat it.

  -LWT
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  Deputy Dog

  I think God can manifest himself as either of the 3 personalities,

  That's modalism. You are not a trinitarian.
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  PSacramento

  Modalism seems to be a logical conclusion, but I beieve that Jesus is Divine, ONE with God, inseperable from God, is that still Modalisim?