Narkissos i clicked onto it and realised there is a lot of reading to do. i will read it sometime today when I have more time. I know that everything isn't as simple as presented and will read with interest.
WHY ALL THE QUESTIONS ?
Narkissos I got round to reading your article on the catechumenate and found it interesting. I do realise that there has to be some form of preparation for baptism, otherwise as was mentioned in the article that there could be some concern for the sincerity of the conersion of the 'candidates'. Only through teaching, can people come to know the truth.
A 3yr span seems quite a long time to instill information in people. I am supposing that this would be at the outset of the 3yrs, a 'starting from scratch' scenario. I wasn't implying that people who request baptism should do so with no knowledge of the scriptures at all, or of God or of Jesus. Jesus required 'faith' and baptism. Faith can only come with knowledge.
Most examples of conversions in NT involved very devout people. (Acts 2 : 1 - 41 3000 at Pentecost -- had travelled to observe the feast day.) (Cornelius was a devout Gentile who feared God and prayed a lot.) Doesn't this show they already had knowledge , already had a fear of God and already had a respect for his authority, so they simply needed to be shown the way of God more accurately. This can be the case with modern day people.
To preach Jesus to people, like Philip did to the Eunuch, obviously inolved some kind of teaching. We know he already knew about God and had faith as he was reading from the scriptures when Philip approached him and asked him if he knew the meaning of what he was reading. He was a man already on a spiritual quest , a genuine searcher with an open heart and mind. So when it made sense to him what Philip said, he responded immediately. He was learning what he wanted to understand. He expressed his belief in Jesus and requested baptism, which is the expected response when someone believes in Jesus. I presume this was the same response with the mass conversions mentioned in Acts -- (Acts 3:1-4:4 -- 2000 on solomons porch, Acts 8:5-13 --The multitudes in Samaria.) People were baptised immediately.
This is what I was trying to put across by my thread. If people are at this point spiritually, then why, within the JW org do they have to go through 104 questions .
The second question from org. at baptism places responsibility on the person to work with the 'spirit directed organization'. This plays a vital role in the presumed 'spiritual growth' of individuals within the org. It provides a wealth of publications, teaching and training in order to help people grow in knowledge....... OF THEIR OWN TEACHINGS, which in all essence steer people away from the truth about Jesus.
Galatians 4 :19 "I am in pains of childbirth until CHRIST is formed in you."
All these conversions in Acts were based on people confessing JESUS. They had JESUS preached to them and showed their wholehearted faith in JESUS by being baptised.
Unless this is what takes place at a JW baptism,( 2nd question shows this not to be the case ), then is the candidate simply getting wet ? Is their baptism based on the belief system of JW teachings valueless ?
This is my personal view which is why I am being baptised again later on this month. Thanks for all the info.
Boyzone - it is definitely a CONTRACT.
In fact in some court cases, where WT was trying to prevent fair quotation from their litterature by ex witlesses, it was called "breach of contract"
iknowall...you are not getting re-baptized with the jws, right? what church are you getting baptized with?
Its a wee church in scotland Riverside Gospel Church , Kirkintilloch (near Glasgow)
I am annulling my JW baptism cos as far as I'm concerned it counts for nothing. I got baptised into an organisation. My allegiance was to a publishing corportation. I rejected Jesus every year at the memorial.
My new proper baptism, will show that Jesus is the focus now, as it should rightly be.
The baptizim of water has nothing to do with what we know or don't know about Jesus and God, it is a "cleansing of Sin".
The baptizim by the Holy Spirit needs no water, it is done by the HS through Jesus Christ and it happens when we accept Jesus as our lord and saviour and have hope and faith accordingly.
People place to high of an importance on water Baptizim, it is simple a symbolic act, nothing more, nothing less.
I know what you're saying PSacramento I want everthing JW to be washed away from me. This is my third....lol I was baptized as a child in the Catholic faith. Third time lucky so they say..............
hey homeschool....yeah she's from scotland...same accent as jack barr.....just ask your "sister"
Congratulations on your new/3rd Baptism