Watchtower and the occult?-outrageous accusations

by cameo-d 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  cameo-d

  Thank you for this great opportunity to plug some of my threads.

  Folks...you read it here, first!!!

  In the Aug. 15 2009 Watchtower, the rag shows photos of John Milton and Isacc Newton with the caption {they} "knew about the hope of Everlasting life on earth."

  Both of these people were involved in....well, don't let me spoil the surprise. Read about it here:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/177868/1/Aug-15-Watchtower-Tip-Toes-into-Occult

  Also, in this same edition, WT quotes the Catholic Encyclopedia. Why are they using "apostate literature" from Babylon? I would think Jah would shut down their presses for even quoting such sources!
• 

  mindmelda

  LOL...It always used to puzzle me why the WTS could use the Catholic Encyclopedia to back up their views, but the rank and file were discouraged from readting non-WTS literature.

  What's the difference between that and Catholic priests in the Dark Ages being the only ones who could read and keeping the peasants ignorant?

  None! They believed that the unwashed masses were too stupid to educate and keeping them ignorant was a good way to control them.

  And they were right. That usually works. Now that most people can read, they control by telling you WHAT you can read. Same difference.
• 

  glenster

  Milton and Newton were among the early Protestants that were non-Trinitarians.
  Newton didn't have any better ability to show it was the originally intended
  view than the JWs leaders, though. Newton, one of our most renowned scientists,
  proposed his own version of the scientifically useless "pyramid inch" (a bit
  shorter than John Taylor's), too, which used to be of some use to JWs leaders.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_inch
  
  "LOL...It always used to puzzle me why the WTS could use the Catholic
  Encyclopedia to back up their views, but the rank and file were discouraged from
  reading non-WTS literature."
  
  That's standard JWs leader's use of research material when claiming to prove
  any of the distinctive stances meant to substantiate that they are the exclusive
  spokesmen of a literal 144,000. Their notably strong shunning rules are applied
  to those who persistantly disagree with any of those rules, too, so they won't
  be around to alert the other victims very long.
  http://www.freewebs.com/glenster1/gtjbrooklynindex.htm
• 

  AnnOMaly

  Hold it!

  The WTS' use of the Catholic Encyclopedia isn't to support their view about everlasting life on earth, but merely to show the historical origins of a shift in theological thought from earthly Millennium blessings (the pre-millennial idea) to a spiritual, symbolic Millennium (amillennialism) where a believer's eternal destiny would be in heaven. This background sets the scene for arguing how the prevalent teaching of 'going to heaven when you die' is in error, how certain notable thinkers of the past believed in a renewed earth, and how Russell pioneered and restored the 'true doctrine' about it.

  What I find immensely disappointing is the lack of acknowledgement for numerous theologians from the past century who ALSO advocate some concept of a renewed earth as the final destiny for believers (Hoekema, G.E. Ladd, N.T. Wright and goodness knows how many others), making it look like Russell and the Bible Students/JWs are the only ones doing so in recent times!
• 

  glenster

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amillennialism
• 

  cameo-d

  AnnOMaly: "Hold it!

  The WTS' use of the Catholic Encyclopedia isn't to support their view about everlasting life on earth, but merely to show the historical origins of a shift in theological thought from earthly Millennium blessings "

  SO.....it's OK to use apostate literature if it's to make a point in favor of WT. What? Isn't that the same self justification that theocratic warfare promotes?

  Surely you realize that this sets a precedence. By the admission that WT uses Catholic Encyclopedia this now makes it---not apostate literature--- but , by example, it becomes "approved outside source".

  What would your JW families say to that?

  Looks like WT is in bed with the Pope.
• 

  AnnOMaly

  There was one JW (Pharisaical mindset) I knew who did say to me once that he couldn't understand why the Society used apostate Christendom's commentaries to support their case. However, my JW family could care less along with, I suspect, most JWs.

  And it doesn't 'set a precedence.' The precedent was set many, many decades ago. Christendom's scholars have long been quoted and cited in support of JW understanding on a matter.

  The use of the Catholic Encyclopedia here is merely to get authoratitive historical background 'from the horse's mouth' instead of using some Protestant or secular source.

  Looks like WT is in bed with the Pope.

  Oh come on. Don't exaggerate.
• 

  AnnOMaly

  In addition, to adapt St. Augustine's words,

  "For whatever man may have learnt from other sources, if it is hurtful, it is [in WT publications] condemned; if it is useful, it is therein contained."
• 

  thomas15

  AnnOMaly, I'm a little confused, could you give a little detail regarding George Eldon Ladd's teaching on this topic and how this compares to the teachings of Russell?

  Thanks,

  Tom
• 

  cameo-d

  AnnOMaly: "For whatever man may have learnt from other sources, if it is hurtful, it is [in WT publications] condemned; if it is useful, it is therein contained."

  Yes, that's kind of what I said. Watchtower picks and chooses apostate material to suit their purpose. Yet "forbids" others to seek outside source material!

  Why do your JW families not question the use of these outside sources used by WT? If you showed up to a meeting with your bible and the catholic encyclopedia, would it be condoned? After all, WT used it as a reference.