The Problem I have with 'Christians', 'Muslims',and 'Jews'. Of ALL varieties.

by ThomasCovenant 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ziddina

    Ohh, if you want to learn more about depravity committed because someone thought they gleaned something from the bible that said they should...

    You should research - thoroughly - the Crusades, the Heretic Burnings (came before the 'Witch' burnings), the Inquisition, and the Witch Burnings.

    Just to give you a sample...

    "Black-garbed Philip II of Spain loved his children dearly, and to amuse them he wrote letters telling about such trivia as the health of an alcoholic court dwarf, an elephant soon to arrive from India, and his presentation of the Order of the Fleece to the Duke of Braganza: "He helped me at Mass and we both wore the Collar {ruff?] - mine was more elegant."...The king also ordered a growing daughter to be measured in silk ribbon and thread, casually adding that he and his nephew had yesterday attended an auto: "We watched it from a window and heard everything as well...First of all there was a sermon, as is customary. We stayed for the pronouncements of the sentences. Then we withdrew because they needed the house we were in for the civil power to condemn to the fire all those whom the inquisitor had handed over. ...May God keep you as I pray He will, Your good father."

    The auto was actually a religious ceremony preceding the human holocaust, a mass declaration of faith at which officialdom sat enthroned in boxes as if at the theater. Not since the heyday of Byzantium had Europe seen such observance of protocol as paralyzed Renaissance Spain. An obsession with orders of precedence, distinctions of title, and the position of each rank in a church pew or the tier of a grandstand clutched the Spanish in the same stranglehold as their religion. Obsequious servants scurried ahead of their masters to measure the height of a dais or bench so as not to imperil a hidalgo's dignity. An iron code of honor backed by etiquette, rampant superstition and bigotry burned into the Spanish soul, a chiaroscuro of passions. Like watchful spiders in a web of deadly lace, the spectators waited with patience for their victims. Pale and immobile as moonlit effigies, stony as their sheep-shorn plains, they waited, heads erect, as if to catch the shrieks of agony in the blackness of the Inquisitor's cell.

    Not only the living were set afire for their crimes but also the dead and buried. {!!!!!!} To complete the grisly pageants, putrid corpses were torn from their graves and borne aloft along with the condemned themselves, exhumed bodies of suspected heretics, and painted effigies of fugitives, dressed alike in a travesty of a monk's robe, a yellow sack [echoes of Buddhist monks' robes?] called the "San Benito", a corruption of "saco bandito:, a name given before the 13 th century to a penitent's dress. Upon the head of each - the quick, the dead, the hideous dolls - was jammed a yellow paste-board parody of the bishop's miter decorated, as was the rough knee-length woolen sack, with red figures of devils, dancing flames, and other infernal symbols. These, if the condemned man were versed in the diabolic heraldry of the Holy Office, might reveal to him his final destination, purgatory or hell. Finally, as at the launching of a ship today, an honored guest would be singled out graciously to set a torch to bright paper, bone, and living flesh." Pp 117-118 of Mirror Mirror - A Social History of Fashion by Michael and Ariane Batterberry.

    Enjoy.....??? Zid


  • besty

    Presumbaly black-garbed Philip II of Spain was aware of the role of Jesus in all of this?

  • OnTheWayOut
    I trust in God I also know when it comes to laws the Jews were unique amongst the tribes around them, in having the only God that banned child sacrifice in those times.

    Is this along the lines of the problem discussed in this thread? The believer who said it is so ready to excuse her God for any injustice carried out in His name. "Our God is better because He banned child sacrifice." Then she ignores the genocide carried out in His name and the raping and pillaging. Somewhere else, she has to turn on the Jews she supported because they didn't support Jesus. Then her mind is ready for her god to exterminate the Jews and the non-Christians for whatever reasons, yet she is apalled that the Jews and the non-Christians can have the exact same type of mindset about outsiders to their beliefs.

  • glenster

    The "God is just" idea falls under the category of God's prerogative. As
    creator, sustainer, whatever, of it all, it's all His to do with however He
    wants--not that He has everyone live forever in heavenly circumstances, which
    wouldn't be credible as noticed by one look around.

    Any God concept, to be credible, of a God beyond the seeable, touchable world,
    has to be reconciled with the real world, such as the 3rd world problems, ill-
    nesses, and that we all die, etc. God can't be all-benificent, which is dealt
    with in one of the earliest books of the Bible. Job can be glad for what good
    he found in life, anyway, the same as a non-believer might look at life that way
    (or not).

    The Abraham story, whether a Christian takes it literally or figuratively
    for theological teaching, has God tell Abrahm to sacrifice his son (and stopped
    him once Abrahm passed the test). Abrahm didn't just have a speculation about a
    possible interpretation that it might be something God wanted him to do or such.

    Some people say nothing has killed more people than belief in God. But Jesus
    and Paul didn't teach followers to look for others and beat them up (1 Cor.
    10:32,33).I say a wiser and bigger overview is that nothing has killed more
    people than when people get too 'centric. That's when people take it on their
    own to fly jets into buildings, burn people at stakes, or Hitlers or Stalins
    have people persecuted and killed, etc. That covers the religious examples,
    doesn't mischaracterize (in a 'centric way) the rest of the believers or non-
    believers who are nice people, and covers all the other examples, too.

    If an extremist with a debatable and dangerous interpretation wants to kill
    someone because their belief is different in the name of God, while they could
    evoke the idea of God's prerogative, I'd like to see a sign of God like Abrahm
    is given as getting in behalf of their interpretation--see some clouds part and
    hear Charleton Heston or something--or they should shut up. They have no show
    of that with anything about Abrahm let alone in the precedent of any misguided
    Christian who got too 'centric and burned someone at a stake because their
    belief was different.

    There is a wealth of evidence that the JWs leaders have mischaracterized
    research books, etc., to support the 'centric claim of being the only leading
    spokemen for a literal 144,000. The rules meant to establish that distinction
    have divided people unnecessarily (shunning) and led to deaths in hospital rooms
    and Germany and Malawi.

  • sir82
    hmmm samson the suicide bomber? imprisonned, tortured and had his eyes gauged out finally he gets to be paraded amongst his tormenters as a dancing bear on a string and in that moment takes many with him... I can see the comparison ^^

    hmmm Achmed the suicide bomber? imprisonned, tortured in a US facility in Iraq....finally he gets to be released and travels back to Afghanistan...goes to an Al-Qaeda training camp, learns about munitions, returns to Iraq and in that moment takes many with him... I can see the comparison ^^

    Not a whole lot of changes had to be made....let the reader use discernment.

  • glenster

    The Philistines took over Palestine for 40 years (Judges 13:1-5, even taking
    the Ark of the Covenant, I Kings 4), with Samson given as working for freedom
    from them, not as a violent effort at religious conversion. The US wants to
    minimize threat but isn't trying to make Iraq the 51st state and take the Kaaba
    from Mecca or dictate what others' religion has to be. Islamic extremist
    suicide bombers kill anyone who isn't one of them, where ever they are, even
    other Islamic people who aren't extremists, intending the rest of us see the
    need to convert to their belief. Thankfully, it usually has the opposite effect.

  • poppers

    but the truth is it wasn't a toaster that stopped him but God himself.

    God isn't a toaster?

  • loosie
    Abraham was willing to kill his son, yes his faith in God was that total and it's harsh but the truth is it wasn't a toaster that stopped him but God himself.

    Well I can say that I am glad that I wouldn't listen to any god, goddess or voice in my head that told me to kill my child. I wouldn't sacrifice my child for the sake of not taking a blood transfusion.

    I am gald I have faith in myself and not faith in a god who like to see how far you'll go to please his crazy personality,

  • glenster

    The original post indicates a view that all Abrahamic religious people are
    unethical immoral people, like JWs leaders' efforts to feign distinction not
    caring who is hurt or killed. That's not true, and, ironically, the best thing
    to criticize is when believers or non-believers are too 'centric, and it's too

    It reminds me of the end of "Religulous," in which the host characterizes
    Armageddon as humans warring against humans instead of it being a hope for the
    end of that with rule by God. And if there's something for the host to
    criticize, it's when people get too 'centric, unwilling to be friendly with
    anyone but their own and creating unneccesary division and worse between people,
    and, ironically, the host is too 'centric. Basically, the host claims the world
    would be good if everyone different than him were abolished. It sounds like an
    atheist Armageddon. The world won't be better if everyone is as 'centric as the
    host--that's one of the worst things about it. We already have too much of
    that, and it's caused the worst believer and non-believer behavior.

  • PEC

    God, I don't need or want one.


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