The Last (Lord's) Supper

by PSacramento 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  PSacramento

  I wanted to ask this question beacuse at the last Memorial Supper it caught my attention more than it ever did:

  Why do some (not just the JW's) believe that Judas did not partkae of the Lord's Supper, the bread and the wine?

  In the synoptic gospels of Matt, Mark and Luke, there is nomention of Judas being sent away, indeed in Luke Jesus says "behold the hand of the betrayer at the table with me".

  While in John Judas is sent away, he is sent AFTER the supper, though it is not clear if this was the Lord's Supper since there is no mention of the the partaking of the wine and bread in John.

  Help would be greatly appreciated.
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  JosephMalik

  Why do some (not just the JW's) believe that Judas did not partake of the Lord's Supper, the bread and the wine?

  PSacramento,

  Because they are all pushing the idea that partaking of it was so sacred that Judas would not have been allowed. Like it would make him special, anointed or something like that. But Judas was there and this was not the Last Supper anyway as they call it. It was the Last Passover under the Law as this was always the first meal of the week long Passover. The example our Lord gave at that meal was not the reality it depicted. The reality would be when it was memorialized in remembrance much later in time. Their view makes them more important than sinners like Judas and they like it that way. Never mind what the truth is, control over you is what they want.

  Joseph
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  PSacramento

  JosephMalik,

  Thank you for your reply, is there any typical biblical passages used by the JW's to justify that belief?

  I have been told that you have to take ALL of the Gospels in order of events and piece them together, but that makes their care worse, not only because John was wriiten after Matt, Mark and Luke, but because John has no "lords supper" other than the supper mentioned where AFTER the supper, Judas is sent away.
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  JosephMalik

  Well I did that back in the 70's and the answer came back that Judas was there. I even wrote them about it but all they wanted to do was to get rid of me. I put this information in my book and even revealed to them that Jesus did not die the next afternoon but was in prison for six days during Passover before being executed. It is all documented at http://home.earthlink.net/~jmalik/ You can see it for yourself. You should trust yourself more as the observations that you made were not your own understanding but what you found in scripture. That will prove trustworthy every time.

  Joseph
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  Spike Tassel

  If we turn to Insight on the Scriptures, the heading "Last Night With Jesus." speaks to your point, as follows:—

  While the Passover meal was in process Jesus ministered to the apostles, humbly washing their feet. Hypocritical Judas allowed Jesus to do that to him But Jesus said, "Not all of you are clean." (Joh 13:2-5, 11) He also stated that one of the apostles there at the table would betray him. Perhaps so as not to appear guilty, Judas asked if he was the one. As a further identification, Jesus gave Judas a morsel and told him to do quickly what he was doing.—Mt. 26:21-25; Mr 14:18-21; Lu 22":21-23; Joh 13:21-30.

  Immediately Judas left the group. A comparison of Matthew 26:20-29 with John 13:21-30 indicates that he departed before Jesus instituted the celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal. Luke's presentation of this incident evidently is not in strict chronological order, for Judas has definitely left by the time Christ commended the group for having stuck with him; that would not fit Judas, nor would he have been taken into the "covenant . . . for a kingdom.:—Lu 22:19-30.
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  isaacaustin

  NWT

  Luke 22

  19 Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf.

  21 “But, look! the hand of my betrayer is with me at the table. 22 Because the Son of man is going his way according to what is marked out; all the same, woe to that man through whom he is betrayed!” 23 So they started to discuss among themselves the question of which of them would really be the one that was about to do this.

  Clear cut enough
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  isaacaustin

  a reading of Matt and John do not indicate Judas left prior to the passover..
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  PSacramento

  Spike,

  The issue is that in John, there is no "lord's supper" per say, the only meal is the one that happens BEFORE the washing of the feet.

  Also in Luke he clearly states AFTER the partaking of the bread and wine that "the hand of the betrayer is at the table with me".

  To say the Luke's presentation is not in strict chronological order is based on what?

  No where in Matt, Mark or Luke is Judas sent away or shown to leave, the only place he is shown to leave is in John and that is AFTER the only meal recorded in John, and after he leaves John does NOT mention any partake of bread and wine at all.

  I know you are trying to establish a chronology by sorting out the events in all 4 gosples, but ut seems oyu are doing it to confome to your doctrine and it is NOT what is plainly stated.
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  isaacaustin

  lets see, the Wt claims that Luke is not strictly chronological.

  What does Luke say?

  1 Whereas many have undertaken to compile a statement of the facts that are given full credence among us, 2 just as those who from [the] beginning became eyewitnesses and attendants of the message delivered these to us, 3 I resolved also, because I have traced all things from the start with accuracy, to write them in logical order to you, most excellent The·oph´i·lus, 4 that you may know fully the certainty of the things that you have been taught orally.

  KJV- It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

  NIV- Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus

  Luke says he wrote the events in order. The WT will try to claim that Luke 3:20 shows it is not strict chronological order- where it gives the history of events leading to John the Baptists arrest. A reading of the chapter shows there is no out of order context, but simply an explanation of events leading to John's arrest.
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  PSacramento

  Isaacaustin,

  That is the issue for me, Luke make sit pretty clear the sequence of events and even in John, th eonly Gosple where Judas is noted in leaving, it happens AFTER the only meal mentioned.