Who is the "Lord of Lords"?

by Chalam 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi,

    I ran across this before but I think it is worth mentioning in its own thread.

    I will quote the NWT for extra effect!

    NWT Deuteronomy 10:17

    For Jehovah YOUR God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords , the God great, mighty and fear-inspiring, who treats none with partiality nor accepts a bribe,

    NWT Psalms 136:1-3

    Give thanks to Jehovah , O YOU people, for he is good:

    For his loving-kindness is to time indefinite;

    Give thanks to the God of the gods:
    For his loving-kindness is to time indefinite;

    Give thanks to the Lord of the lords :
    For his loving-kindness is to time indefinite;

    So Jehovah is give the title "Lord of lords" twice in the OT. Let's see in the NT

    NWT 1 Timothy 6:14-15

    that you observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ . This [manifestation] the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, [he] the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords

    NWT Revelation 17:14

    These will battle with the Lamb , but, because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those called and chosen and faithful with him [will do so].”

    NWT Revelation 19:13-16

    and he is arrayed with an outer garment sprinkled with blood, and the name he is called is The Word of God . Also, the armies that were in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty. And upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords .

    So there are two verses for Jehovah in the OT which call Him "Lord of Lords" and three times the term is used in the NT but they each refer to Jesus.

    There is only one conclusion, Jesus is God and He and the Father are one.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    On 1 Timothy (whether the expression "Lord of those who rule as lords" applies to the Son -- as strangely the WTS holds -- or the Father), see http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/175285/1/Jesus-As-King-of-kings-and-Lord-of-lords-In-1st-Century-or-1914-Which

  • oompa
    oompa

    niiiiice............tag...........oompa

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    I think I will bring this up when the JWs next knock at my door.

    The two old ladies who knew their NWT bibles and WT publications inside out told we floored when then found out the Alpha and the Omega isn't only used for the Father but also Jesus.

    Now I have the "Lord of Lords" in my JW toolbox :)

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • wobble
    wobble

    I think it is good Stephen, the evidence you quote, but as you know, JW's can read a scripture that as plain as day to us shows the oneness of the Father and Son, and they will twist its meaning in their mind, I know coz I did it for 58 years !

    They will say "Oh yes, Christ is King of earthly Kings, and Lord of earthly Lords, and over all creatures in heaven, but he is still subservient to Jehovah (The Father)

    Difficult to help them see, if they don't want their eyes opened.

    Love

    Wobble

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hi Wobble,

    Yes, you are right!

    The Lord told me to read this after I asked Him about the two JWs who had just left after two or three hours of circular "reasoning the scriptures". Have a read, it is like rocket fuel!

    1 Peter 2:4-8 (New International Version)

    The Living Stone and a Chosen People
    4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
    "See, I lay a stone in Zion,
    a chosen and precious cornerstone,
    and the one who trusts in him
    will never be put to shame." 7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
    "The stone the builders rejected
    has become the capstone," 8 and,
    "A stone that causes men to stumble
    and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

    All the best, Stephen
  • rocky
    rocky

    I hope this will give some indication.....??

    ***it-2p.267Lord***

    TheHebrew“Adhohn”and“Adhonai.” The Hebrew word ’a·dhohn′ occurs 334 times in the Hebrew Scriptures. It carries the thought of ownership or headship and is used of God and of men. The plural form ’adho·nim′ sometimes denotes the simple numerical plural and is then translated “lords” or “masters.” (Ps 136:3; Isa 26:13) At other places the plural form denotes excellence, or majesty, whether of God or of man (Ps 8:1; Ge 39:2), and in such cases any appositional pronouns or modifying adjectives are in the singular number. (Ps 45:11; 147:5) In some places, two plurals are used side by side to distinguish Jehovah by the plural of excellence from the numerous other lords.—De 10:17; Ps 136:3; compare 1Co 8:5, 6.

    *** w059/1p.27QuestionsFromReaders

    Readersbasisisthereforsayingthatsuchphrasesas“theonealonehavingimmortality”andtheone“whomnotoneofmenhasseenorcansee”refertoJesusratherthantoJehovah

    God?

    The apostle Paul wrote: “This manifestation the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, he the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”—1 Timothy 6:15, 16.

    Bible commentators generally reason: ‘How could such phrases as “the one alone having immortality,” the “only Potentate,” and the one “whom not one of men has seen or can see” point to anyone other than the Almighty?’ Admittedly, such terms could be used to describe Jehovah. However, the context indicates that at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16, Paul was specifically referring to Jesus.

    At the end of verse 14, Paul mentions “the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Timothy 6:14) Hence, when Paul writes in verse 15 that “this manifestation the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times,” he is referring to a manifestation of Jesus, not of Jehovah God. Who, then, is the “only Potentate”? It seems reasonable to conclude that Jesus is the Potentate referred to by Paul. Why? The context makes it evident that Paul is comparing Jesus with human rulers. Jesus truly is, as Paul wrote, “King of those [humans] who rule as kings and Lord of those [humans] who rule as lords.” Yes, compared to them, Jesus is the “only Potentate.” Jesus has been given “rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.” (Daniel 7:14) No human potentate can make that claim!

    What about the phrase “the one alone having immortality”? Again, a comparison is being drawn between Jesus and human kings. No earthly rulers can claim to have been granted immortality, but Jesus can. Paul wrote: “We know that Christ, now that he has been raised up from the dead, dies no more; death is master over him no more.” (Romans 6:9) Thus, Jesus is the first one to be described in the Bible as receiving the gift of immortality. Indeed, at the time of Paul’s writing, Jesus was the only one who had attained indestructible life.

    It should also be kept in mind that it would have been wrong for Paul to say that Jehovah God alone had immortality, since Jesus too was immortal when Paul wrote those words. But Paul could say that Jesus alone was immortal in comparison with earthly rulers.

    Further, it is certainly true that after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension to heaven, he can be described as one “whom not one of men has seen or can see.” Granted, his anointed disciples would behold Jesus after their own death and subsequent resurrection to heaven as spirit creatures. (John 17:24) But no man on earth would see Jesus in his glorified state. Hence, it can truthfully be stated that since Jesus’ resurrection and ascension, “not one of men” has actually seen Jesus.

    True, at first glance, it may seem as if the descriptions found at 1 Timothy 6:15, 16 could apply to God. But the context of Paul’s words—along with the corroboration of other scriptures—shows that Paul was referring to Jesus.[Footnote]

    Similar expressions are applied to Jesus at 1 Corinthians 8:5, 6; Revelation 17:12, 14; 19:16.

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    I don't know who the Lord of Lords is, but the Lord of Hosts is Bob Barker. W.Once

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    King of those [humans] who rule as kings and Lord of those [humans] who rule as lords.

    Square bracket alert.

  • passwordprotected
    passwordprotected

    Stephen, another one for your box is Ephesians 4:8 which, even in the NWT, cross-references to Psalm 68:18. Paul uses this Psalm, which is talking about Jehovah, and directly applies it to Jesus.

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