Mediator for Great Crowd?

by waiting 15 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • waiting

    Sorry no scriptures are quoted, I'm at work - but for all you that are diligent, I'm the owner and I can be on the web when I feel like it!

    I have been reading, a lot. I know the arguments about Jesus being in a "new covenant position" with the anointed and the great crowd is not in a convenant position, but enjoy the benefits of that covenant.

    I don't quite get it though, in the scripture where Jesus died for all men - I've looked in 5 different translations, and they all say that Jesus died for all men - not for all (types) of men.

    My MAIN question is, why are all the prayers said from the platform and all our private prayers ended saying: "we pray through your son, Jesus Christ." (or similar) If we're not in a mediator position with Jesus, why are we taught to pray through him? I understand respect, etc., but we have always been taught to pray exclusively through Jesus - that our prayers would not be heard by Jehovah if we didn't pray through Jesus. That sure sounds like we're praying through Jesus as our mediator.

    I understand, kind of, the argument that the Anointed Faithful and Discreet Slave, better known as primarily the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, is the "channel" between Jehovah and man. Which would mean that it goes like this:

    Anointed in heaven, Jehovah's Sons
    Anointed Remnant on earth, Jehovah's Sons, dba Watchtower Society
    great crowd of "Jehovah's friends"

    Again, why do we pray through Jesus, if he is not our mediator? If the organization, our mother, is Jehovah's "channel" to the great crowd - not Jesus - then who are we to pray through? Who is OUR mediator?

    If it is the anointed, and they ARE getting older and this system is lasting WAY longer than we anticipated -- who is our mediator when they die - because they told us that Jesus is not our mediator - only theirs.

    Does it seem slightly askew that Jehovah would have billions of people on the earth, say, in 10 years (if this system) lasts, with no way to speak with him? I have read about the New Light on the Nethinim, or Temple Helpers for Governing Body. They have the same authority, almost (not voting) that the Governing Body does. Fine, but the Society does not teach that they have to be of the anointed. If they're not, again - who will be our biblical mediator?

    If this system lasts longer than the old men on the Governing Body, and Jesus WAS their mediator (there might still be others living then, but if they're sisters, it wouldn't matter 'cause they're NEVER gonna sit in THAT room), how will we pray, the way the Society has taught us, to Jehovah? I really find it hard to believe that Jehovah would do that to us - all of mankind.

  • spectromize

    Excellent points Waiting, very good arguments!

  • Frenchy

    Yes, those are all good points. You don't have to worry about the 'old men' dying off and leaving this empire unattended. I have this very strong feeling that somehow, ten, twenty, fifty years from now, there will always be a few 'annointed' that will be more than happy to take their seats in that room and hand out proclamations from God. I understand the new members are relatively young. BUT...the end is close, never mind that they have projects on the drawing boards for ten and twenty years in the future... just don't YOU make any long term plans.

  • RedhorseWoman

    Maybe, just maybe, we girls should....naw, it wouldn't fly. (sigh)

  • waiting

    Found another web site with Really Straight Jehovah's Witnesses participating. Was strange is the politest thing I can think of.

    However, holy spirit and Jesus being our mediator came up in several threads (know my lingo, eh?)

    All participants felt that Jesus was their direct mediator between Jehovah. This is not what the Society teaches. Only the 144,000 "channel" from God. But, honestly, all who participated felt Jesus their mediator, strange.

    All participants felt they were in direct receipt of holy spirit, one way or another. Along with others here, I've never felt like that. I just stumble on my own and always hoped Jehovah would let me stay until he found out who he was really dealing with.

    They were a bit too righteous for me.

  • RedhorseWoman

    I've visited a couple of those, also. For the most part, they are totally boring with the majority of posts dealing with "Your Favorite Color", or "How many carrion birds will it take to clean up YOUR neighborhood after Armageddon?".

  • Seven

    waiting, I for one feel the same regarding the holy spirit as a majority of the participants of that DB you were referring to. I've found many brothers and sisters who were introduced to the truth later in life have the same views. However, they will not speak freely about this. I think every believer in Jehovah and his son Jesus have the guidance of the holy spirit as do you. You needn't feel as if you are out there stumbling around on your own.

    RedhorseWoman-How many carrion birds? Can you believe some of that uplifting tripe? I gave up on one such site after a long thread about sorting
    through the material possessions of the annihilated.


  • RedhorseWoman

    Sorting through possessions? Ugh! Now THAT is really creepy.

    I had visited one site quite some time ago, where someone was pontificating on how much he was looking forward to the destruction of the wicked. He was eager to see the piles of dead bodies.

    I reminded him that the Bible states that even Jehovah regrets the destruction of any wicked makes Him sad. I also told this cretin that I thought he would probably have done quite well in a Nazi concentration camp.

    I'm trying to remember where I read this quote, but even the Society gets pretty bloodthirsty. In one of the publications (and I wish I could remember which one) the point was made that the only reason df'd people are shunned is because modern governments would not allow the WTBTS to execute those judged as wrongdoers. After all, in ancient Israel, wrongdoers were stoned to death.

  • Frenchy

    Well put, ladies.

  • Simon

    RHW - I think the bit you're refering to is from a 1950/51 WatchTower which was expressing regret that 'unrighteous' wordly governments don't allow the WTB&T Society to kill ex-members like the Isrealites could.
    It is definitely on the WatchTower CR-ROM as I remember looking it up to prove to someone that the quote they had was wrong...except of course it was right.
    Doh !

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