Phrases NOT to say if you are in a judicial committee meeting for apostasy

BonaFide

I have only been on a couple of committee's for actual apostasy, and in one the brother never showed, and in the other, the person said they don't want to be a Witness. But in having experience as an elder and a C.O., and in reading this forum, here are my suggestions.

DO NOT SAY:

"I don't believe that the Faithful and Discreet Slave is God's channel" - Why not? The elders are WAITING for you to say that, so they can disfellowship you, it's as easy as that. I am serious, THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO SAY TO GET DISFELLOWSHIPPED. So don't say it, say the opposite, "Of course I believe it's God's channel. I am just struggling to understand some things."

DO NOT SAY:

"I disagree with this or that teaching." Again, the ELDERS ARE LOOKING FOR KEY WORDS. THEY HATE TO BE SITTING THERE AND THEY WANT TO GO HOME. SO THEY WANT YOU TO SAY YOU DISAGREE AND BAM, YOU ARE AN APOSTATE." So don't say you disagree, EVER. Say you don't understand, and you NEED THEIR HELP.

THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD SAY:

"I truly believe this is God's Organization. Some of the brothers may have misinformed you. I just am struggling to understand some things, PLEASE HELP ME."

Of course, IF YOU WANT OUT, then go ahead and say you don't believe in the Faithful Slave. You will be disfellowshipped in 5 minutes.

But if you want to make an impression on the elders, and the congregation, then KEEP THOSE MEETINGS WITH THE ELDERS GOING!!!. Have a few meetings with the elders where they have to explain TO YOU the 607 B.C.E problem, the Child Abuse Two-Witness Rule, the UN Involvement, etc.

Try not to do much talking yourself, elders are notorious for NOT listening as they look at their papers. They are just waiting for you to stop so they can start talking. They love to talk. SO LET THEM. KEEP THEM TALKING AND EXPLAINING.

And at the end of each meeting, emphasize that YOU STILL BELIEVE THIS IS GOD'S ORGANIZATION, AND THAT YOU NEED TO BE SNATCHED OUT OF THE FIRE, AS THE SCRIPTURE SAYS.

I have seen a few on this board perhaps facing committees, so I wanted to get this in there.

Its all up to you of course. Some of you will not lie or pretend to believe in the Slave. Just remember that as soon as you say those words, "I don't believe in the Slave, YOU ARE OUT. So some might want to extend things for a few hours or weeks or months and MAYBE, get some elders and some of the friends to think.

Your comments?

BF

BonaFide

I forgot to mention that some elders are good at directing the conversation towards YOU. So try and steer it AWAY from you, i.e. "I want you help so can you please EXPLAIN THIS TO ME." When they continue to ask about YOU, look out, they are trying to trap you into saying something against the Organization. SO LOOK OUT.

BF

daniel-p

But if you want to make an impression on the elders, and the congregation, then KEEP THOSE MEETINGS WITH THE ELDERS GOING!!!

What do yo umean by this?

undercover

But if you want to make an impression on the elders, and the congregation, then KEEP THOSE MEETINGS WITH THE ELDERS GOING!!!

What do yo umean by this?

I took it to mean that if you don't want to be "outed" and are trying to fly under the radar, which is to say impress your JW family and friends that you're not an apostate, then keep meeting with the elders, asking for help and feigning "spiritual sickness"

But that's just my interpretation...

Awakened at Gilead

I said: "I don't believe in anything that the magicians in Brooklyn teach"...

It took 7 weeks...lol

Quirky1

Magicians in Brooklyn!! LOL

leavingwt

But if you want to make an impression on the elders, and the congregation, then KEEP THOSE MEETINGS WITH THE ELDERS GOING!

I predict that within two years' time, you'll come back, re-read this sentence, and realize that there is indeed NOT a way to make an impression on someone whose mind is being controlled.

Spook

MY JC meeting was so funny. I sent in a DA letter, argued the elders down for several hours and as far as I know never got announced as DA'd or DF'd. They told me to take some time off and think about it and suggested they would contact me in a few months if they hadn't heard from me. That was years ago.

I got the 2 elders to agree that JW's don't have any better objective rational reasons for belief than any other religion. I got them to admit that they really believe probably because they enjoy the congregation and have emotional reasons to be there. I told them I was fine with this, to doesn't prove we're wrong, but I can't condone preaching otherwise publicly or condemning others who are doing similar things.

It's simple things such as "I don't believe we are being actively deceived, I think we are all collectively fooling ourselves a bit by pretending like the things we teach are obvious, when in reality they are not obvious. I can't object to someonee who would point this out.

When asked "Do you believe the governing body is God's channel?" I would say:

"To have evidence for this belief would mean that it is either obvious from the scriptures that they are so, or else that the results of their leadership are so far above and beyond what one would expect normal humans to do as to be remarkable. In the former case, it is not obvious from the scriptures. If it were, I would have expected there to be many people claiming to be this class during the last 2000 years and that is not so. In the latter case, they themselves admit that they are "only human." So it seems to me that this claim is one which is impossible to prove and would have to be taken on faith alone. I believe there is no objective evidence for the truth of that claim. Furthermore, I respect and do not look down on people in the ministry who are highly skeptical of any claim to divine direction. It seems to me that were God to exist he would want people to be skeptical in this way."

"Do you believe it on faith?"

"Well, the bible, if it were true, clearly indicates that faith should be directed toward God so I can't possibly believe this claim on faith because the governing body is the only group claiming that the governing body is God's channel, right? I mean, you wouldn't believe they were God's channel if they told you they WEREN'T God's channel, right? I believe that, were God to exist and if the bible were true and also that Jehovah's Witnesses have correctly interpreted the bible, then yes, the governing body is God's channel." You should have seen their faces.

This was all, at my families request to not leave harshly, after I sent a letter calling the GB "recreant and unsophisticated amateur scholars"

Spook

Oh!

I also contrasted the GB example with that of Jesus.

"Were the bible true, it seem that other people were always the ones identifying Jesus as being who he was. It seems to me in the bible that it was always God who provided evidence of the divine direction of his servants. It was never the case that his servants went about convincing others of their special position in the face of skepticism and evidence to the contrary. I understand why it seems objectively unlikely to most people that the GB is anything other than a group of men sincerely trying to interpret the bible, yet fallible and mistaken about the strength of their own arguments."

Megachusen

That's some good stuff, Spook. I bet they just sat in their chairs thinking "Uh, so should we disfellowship him or not? "

Phrases NOT to say if you are in a judicial committee meeting for apostasy

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