End of CO's and DO's? Pioneer Change Hours? Apostacy in Bethel/ Chicago? Thoughts on no more Bookstudy...

by cognac 21 Replies latest jw friends

  • sammielee24

    Nobody seems to care as much like they did before. Guess with the cult crap not being shoved as much down there throats they becoming less cult like.

    Two points.

    We've talked with about 10 JW's in the past few months. All active. All long term including a couple of ex Bethel guys and past Elders. Not one of them cares as much as they did. Not one. They could care less about what the society said when or what they did - we got the message loud and clear that the past matters not - what is taught today is what they believe. They will continue to ride the wave and follow the WTS. So yes - they care less about any changes or anything in the past

    But - at the same time, it is really obvious that they are becoming MORE cult like in their thought pattern. This is more dangerous than before because before, you might be able to point out previous WT articles and get some dialogue going - now you can't. They just don't care. They are here to do nothing else but serve Jehovah (WTS) and that's it. No matter what they throw at them, they will follow. It's ridiculously scary to realize that, because it means that the walls have closed in and all rational thought is close to being gone. We pointed out the glass of water being pure like the 'truth'..and how now it appears tainted. They agreed ...but insist that change is what you expect from God's organization as they strive to get it right.

    The dissed me big time at the end which pissed Sam off but I figure in their small world it was something for them to be proud of...like they said..Jehovah knows hearts...and theirs ain't full of love, compassion and truth so they should be very, very, afraid....lol.


  • BonaFide

    Sammieswife, I agree. Yesterday I was talking with a brother who said that all scientists are stupid. He said just listen to the Society, because scientists are the ones who are ruining the earth.


  • AllTimeJeff

    I think the CO rumor a real possibility simply as a cost cutting/money savings issue...

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite


    It would be great to see the COs kicked to the curb. I think the Corporation would love to keep the money that's spent on them, but as you said, they are an important element of control. Time will tell.

    On the bookstudy change, I don't see any improvement in study or preparation. All are glad to have an extra free night. I haven't seen any huge changes like you describe, but service, hall cleaning, and some of the things that were arranged through the book studies have been increasingly neglected. Participation in FS certainly hasn't improved with the newly freed time. Similar to when the Public Talk was shortened to allow more time for the ministry, it just didn't happen that way.

    Or course, time will tell. Most of the changes they've been making appear to be reactionary and beneficial only in the short-term. Over the long-haul, I think the grip they're trying to tighten will just get slippery.

    B the X

  • sammielee24
    Yesterday I was talking with a brother who said that all scientists are stupid. He said just listen to the Society, because scientists are the ones who are ruining the earth.

    When we brought up the issue of disfellowshipping for smoking..we got the pat response that people knew in the 70's that it was bad because the medical profession etc was warning against it. I disagreed with him and told him that as far as I recall, having lived through the 70's and having heavy smokers in my family, I said it really didn't get strong warnings against it until the late 80's up into the 90's until now it's common place. So, to disfellowship someone for smoking then was nothing more than making up something from the 'defilement' scripture in order to gain control.

    The response that I got to that one was that 'the Society is often ahead of the rest of the world in these things'.

    The behavior is getting really inbred and it's very noticeable now. He even admitted that the society HAD to come up with a change to the generation doctrine in order to move one....but then refused to acknowledge that it hurt anyone at all because the Society is made up of imperfect men and will change all the time.

    By the end of 3 hours, I was ready to deposit them all onto their own island and let them live alone where they can't hurt anyone....sammieswife.

  • Spook

    Operating under our assumption that no god directs the WTBTS, the two things which could really change them are legal precedent and internal division. The latter is most likely ruled out by the structure of the organization. If "writing" ever gets parsed to different national groups you could see a split. The former is always a looming possibility.

    I may interject a third possibility: Other religions who have been better at adjusting to the information age will win those converts who otherwise would have become JW's. The JW preaching model is outdated and has little success in Islamic countries. Many religions are poised to capitalize on new territory. JW's have always been a "tertiary" religion. Meaning first local religions convert to Christianity, then 2nd or 3rd generation Christians become JW's. They cannot argue with the secular or with indiginous religions.

  • yknot

    My CO is coming soon, it was announced at today's FS meeting that he is being sent near the Oklahoma border.

    He had said previously and on many occassions he was getting out but apparently it was just him musing to himself, totally unaware of all the rumors and facts regarding Bethel layoffs (which he was informed last weekend by the KH he visited). Apparently in moments of panic he has sent 'feelers' out among our Brothers to see if he would be welcomed and aided in finding housing and employment should he find himself out of the CO position. From the phone conversations I have had today he allegedly turned white as a ghost when informed about the layoffs and excused himself for 20 minutes with his cellphone and wasn't himself for the rest of the meal.

    The CO "restructure" (not doing away but creating legal distance and removing financial responsibility) seems real and eminent as it is cost saver along with limiting corporate liability. This in the immediate will seem cruel but in the end these men will at least be able to contribute to SS for their eventual retirement.

    Pioneer hours: If this was a hoax then the WTS needs to be concerned over not only how fast the rumor spread but also how excited, overjoyed and happy all the 'friends' were to hear this possibility. It could still be a useful change to divert the attentions of R&F during upcoming structural changes.

    BS: I think I can speak for many JWs when I say that they should just go ahead and ditch the 25 minutes next January, nobody will miss it and we will get out of the KH before 9pm!...... especially those of us with kids and the elderly who don't feel safe driving in the dark.

    Apostasy at Bethel: One man's apostate is another man's reformer. (Dayum I wonder who will be Gene's protector while Ted is infirmed~ anyone got any thoughts?)

    ..... In many ways we were already on a path of change but with Ted's stroke possibly taking him out for a period of recovery or permanently it will be most interesting to see what the publications start to say and the tone they take starting around the first of next year......

  • cognac

    I think I can speak for many JWs when I say that they should just go ahead and ditch the 25 minutes next January, nobody will miss it

    I know! Nobody likes that meeting - at least it will be a bit easier to deal with...

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    But didn't you notice that the change from Book Study to Bible Study made it much more spiritually nourising? excuse me while I barf.

  • wobble

    What's the 25 minutes, the Congregation (Book) Bible study ?

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