JWs, Christmas and "pagan origin" (page 2)

patio34

Well, I just want to relate that I went to my 1st work Xmas luncheon. It was wonderful! We had a delicious meal, sang carols, and laughed.

It was a good thing . . .

Cheers!
Pat

peaceloveharmony

i think this is the thread missie elf referred to
. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=15826&site=3

merry christmas all

love
harmony

Most people think, Great God will come from the skies, Take away everything And make everybody feel high. But if you know what life is worth, You will look for yours on earth: And now you see the light, You stand up for your rights.~~Bob Marley

Room 215

Cygnus,

Few observers of Christmas relaly believe Jesus was born on December 25; an awareness of the festival's true origins are widespread. The whole point is that while such facts are of histoical interest, they're largely irrelevant.

While any celebration can be abused and turned into an excuse for immoderate excesses, observance of any holiday, Christmad included --is seldom more than an insitutionalized opportunity to reunite with family and friends-- basically innocuous and hardly a justification for a God of supreme love to condemn any such sincere if not-quite-fully-informed celebrants to eternal damnation.

Sadly, the world offers a lot more to fret over than whether some people take a few days at teh end of each year to drag in a tree, decorate it, exchange presents, eat and drink with friends and family, and sing a few songs.

joelbear

One thing you have to remember is that there is a major difference between the life Jehovah's Witnesses espouse to live and the life they actually live.

If they were serious about their lives as Jehovah's Witnesses with no pagan customs, no political ties, no bad associations, they would watch little to no TV, rarely go to movies, not exchange wedding rings, celebrate their anniversaries, wear graduation gowns, etc. etc. etc. Indeed I knew a few witnesses in my life that did live this way and they were considered nutcases by the rest of the congregation.

No witness is going to give up all their worldly practices and ties to become "no part of the world". Instead they pick a few "biggies" like the major holidays where they can really stand out as different. Its a marketing ploy. The daily rituals of life and entertainment choices of witnesses are indistinguishable from the world as a whole.

Just pick out a few habits like these in the witnesses you know and they'll say, oh your just being nitpicky, or the old nobody's perfect excuse. Ask them to imagine a new world filled with Bible dramas as the only entertainment option.

Joel

TR

Cygnus,

Are you playing devil's advocate or do you still adhere to "WT think"?
I ask this because many of your posts I've read seem to side with WTS rules.

I disagree that "fake generosity" rules how most people feel at Christmastime. While some may feel obligated, others genuinely look forward to gift giving at a special time as Christmas.

I tend to agree with Room 215's view.

TR

I'm gonna make mince meat outta that Osama!

waiting

Hey Scully,

Thanks for bringing up that article in the current Watchtower. It's in the back, questions from readers - page 28.

I read it several times, as this was a big issue for my sister, Patio. (Hope she doesn't mind if I talk about her). I *brought her into the Truth.* My husband was a jw, so he helped convince me that xmas was totally wrong. I, in turn, convinced her.

However, her Irish Catholic husband (large family- some living next door to her) was furious. I think part of his frustration was that he felt that she was taking away from him and his children also. He wasn't a great man, but he loved family gatherings -and 20 years ago, a jw didn't *gather* unless under protest - and making that known to all who would listen. I'm not defending his behavior, he could be a real lout when he wanted. It just made their marriage harder.

She hated ANY holiday - and the weeks before hand, as they meant many beratings, yellings, etc., given by her husband in front of her children, sometimes even in front of her in-laws. Terrible times in her house.

And now? The WTBTS blithly says it's ok. They don't even call it New Light! Just do a flip! That is a good thing, don't get me wrong ------ but their twisting of scriptures to promote themselves caused much pain, some literal, for families - and I think the women had to take the brunt of it (as they do much of the actual workings of the holidays.)

I think it's great that they're *allowing* women to be part of their families during this time. It should have never been demanded that they estrange themselves in the first place.

As for *how* the holiday is celebrated? Religious, secular, nature orientated? I think each family group should make their own determination - if they want to observe it at all. But is should be private ---- not demanded by outsiders or the WTBTS.

QUESTION: If it's ok for a woman with a worldly husband to join in - and it's no sin as long as they don't do an *act of worship*.........is it ok for ALL jw's to do the same?

waiting

Room 215

hey waiting..... how goes it?

As to your question in red ``If it's ok for a woman with a worldly husband to join in - and it's no sin as long as they don't do an *act of worship*.........is it ok for ALL jw's to do the same?''

My experience is that if Brooklyn gives the average JW the slightest bit of ``wiggle room'' -- so much as a teeny inch of latitude to show some discretion in their handling of how to deal personally with an unpopular JW ban, they'll drive a truck through it!

How many of them, for example, will cite ``necessary family business'' to counter accusations when observed talking to DFd relatives they in theory should be shunning? Although there's no shortage of recalcitrant hardasses among them, I've seen lots of them invoke any loophole they can justify by quoting WT article chapter, verse, month and year.

So much for reliance of a ``Bible-trained Christian conscience.'' ... another pervasaive JW myth that dies hard.

myMichelle

I read the same 12/15 WT article referred to by posters above. I like Waiting's question, that if it is alright for JW women w/ nonJW husbands to participate on some level, why isn't okay for all JWs?

That's not the thought that crossed my brain while reading it, my question was "well, if it is okay for JW women married to nonJW men, is it okay for JW men married to nonJW women?" Pretty sure I already know the answer to that, I've read enough WT literature.

Michelle

Latte

Sironas thread was rather good also…………

Click on to read more!

< http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=16572&site=3>;

A genuine Christian should consider: Would following a custom indicate to others that I have adopted unscriptural beliefs or practices? The time period and location could influence the answer. A custom (or design) might have had a false religious meaning millenniums ago or might have such today in a distant land. But without going into time-consuming investigation, ask yourself: ‘What is the common view where I live?’—Compare 1 Corinthians 10:25-29.

*** w91 10/15 30-1 Questions From Readers ***
Questions From Readers
õ When someone dies, is it proper for Christians to give flowers to the family or to send flowers to the funeral home?
....
It is similar with some funeral customs. Egyptians customarily embalmed the dead. The faithful patriarch Joseph did not automatically react, ‘This is a pagan custom, so we Hebrews must avoid it.’ Rather, he “commanded his servants, the physicians, to embalm his father,” evidently so that Jacob could be buried in the Promised Land. (Genesis 49:29–50:3) The Jews later developed different funeral customs, such as bathing the body and burying it on the day of death. Early Christians accepted such Jewish customs.—Acts 9:37.
....Still, all kinds of objects, designs, and practices have, at some time or place, been given a false interpretation or have been linked with unscriptural teachings. Trees have been worshiped, the heart shape has been viewed as sacred, and incense has been used in pagan ceremonies. Does this mean that a Christian must never use incense, have trees in any decoration, or wear heart-shaped jewelry? That is not a valid conclusion.

Latte

Yerusalyim

Another question. Why does the Society, and faithful Witnesses parrot, the nonsense that Christmas is just a continuation of the Saturnalia? The Christmas holiday was raised in very direct oppostion to the Roman Feast of Sol Invictus, the Unconquered Sun. It was a celebration of the birth of the god of Light, Mithras, who was adopted by the Romans. There are some similarities between the Mithra story and that of Jesus, but not many. It's clear from reading history that the Holiday of Christmas was set in direct OPPOSITION to Sol Invictus as the Mithra Cult was the single largest competitor to Christianity for conversions. But Christmas and the Saturnalia, no real connection. SIlly JW's!

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

JWs, Christmas and "pagan origin"

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