Breaking cognitive dissonance - or - how to get Bill Cosby to help a dub see the light

by undercover 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • undercover
    undercover
    I'm just thinking that there is then a problem if he is found innocent . Witnesses will flip the situation and say " see lots of accusations do not add up to guilt , people just had it in for him because he is black/, famous /, rich /; just like apostates have it in for us "

    Apostates and critics of the WTS have one thing that the Cosby critics don't have: arrests, trials, convictions, imprisoned JWs, lawsuits found in favor of victims of abuse, the list goes on. And it's not just one case, it's many cases. Denying that the WTS/JWs have child abuse issues is like denying that the Catholic church has child abuse issues. I bet the average JW is very critical of the Catholic church and points to them as what a religion is like without god's spirit, not realizing their argument can be used against their own religion.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Hardcore loyalist JWs will refuse to believe it, regardless.

    Which, I suspect, is what the GB really only cares about, anyway.

  • jhine
    jhine

    Absolutely undercover , but we know that JWs will use any kind of skewed logic to defend the org. And anyway all these trials are the work of the world aren't they to discredit the truth ?!!

    Jan

  • Storm
    Storm

    It's not a comparable set of circumstances. The accusations against Mr. Cosby are against him as an individual. The people attacking Jehovah's Witnesses are seeking to make others responsible aside from the person who actually committed the crime. Jehovah's organization consists of about 8 million baptized publishers, a number that exceeds the size of most metropolises. Not that the demographics of Jehovah's organization are the same as major cities in a crime ridden society. But in general sense, if you look at the crime statistics of any given metropolitan area, you can get some idea of what number of individuals are capable of a crime punishable by law.

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/seven_major_felony_offenses_2000_2014.pdf

    Several thousand individuals are disfellowshipped from Jehovah's organization on an annual basis, and this doesn't exclude crimes punishable by law.

    There's some margin for making others accountable for the crimes of another, but making others accountable does have its limits.

    If you take a look at the native facts of a specific incident, you'll find that accountability is limited to a very few persons. In this instance, Luis Rivera, a Hispanic man never informed the Watchtower Society of Gonzalo Campos history of abuse and also recommended his appointment for privileges in the congregation. What happened here was breach in policy, a policy instituted by the Watchtower Society that prohibits known abusers from being assigned privileges in the congregation. Why would you blame the organization for something like that?


    There were some arguments made about the Watchtower Society not forcing elders out, although that's not their respective purpose, dominating congregations, exacting force, forcing accountability on local congregations unless there are two or more elders that are defiant.

    Most of Jehovah's Witnesses are confident in the organization's core values because they're cognizant of the good they see in their local congregation. If something bad takes place at a congregation, they don't just stick their head in the sand. They're not necessarily afforded the opportunity to do so.

    Playa Pacifica Spanish congregationSan Diego, CA 92117-6434

    Letter to Service Department, July 4, 1999

    Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.100 Watchtower DrivePatterson, NY 12563-4204

    "The victim's families know what happened and many members of our congregation and from the Linda Vista congregation know about it. Due to the great damage he caused and the betrayal of his appointment as an overseer..."

    The congregation as a whole weren't dissonant toward the organization because of the damage this man caused, they were resilient.

  • SAHS
    SAHS

    “Storm”: “The accusations against Mr. Cosby are against him as an individual. The people attacking Jehovah's Witnesses are seeking to make others responsible aside from the person who actually committed the crime.”

    Actually, this is not a case of attacking all Jehovah’s Witness people, nor is it seeking to make others responsible aside from the person who actually committed the crime. At issue here are the policies of the Watchtower organization/corporation itself, which is under a legal and moral obligation to follow the secular laws in these matters. Thus, the plaintiffs’ legal actions, or ‘attacks’ as you call them, are properly, legitimately, and justly directed at the corporate entities of the Watchtower organization. The aim of such actions (including those others which may be pending) is only to effect punitive justice upon the individual perpetrators and effectively prevent those perpetrators from causing further harm to other victims, and, in practical monetary terms, punitive justice upon the legal/corporate entities of the Watchtower, which would hopefully result in them reexamining and improving their self-serving and harmful policies – but such cannot be judged as “attacking Jehovah’s Witnesses” as a people, like it’s some kind of archaic “community responsibility” punishment.

    The Watchtower policies in dispute are those requiring local bodies of elders to immediately go through the legal department of the Watchtower before any consideration of notifying the proper authorities, as required by law, and which seek to protect the image of the Watchtower organization at all costs, even if it means covering up repeated and scandalous actions toward the vulnerable and the very young by deliberately failing to inform and warn others in congregations within the Jehovah’s Witness community. Elder bodies forwarding outstanding recommendations as introductory reports to other congregations on behalf of dangerous and habitual pedophile sexual predators, while they refuse to even acknowledge the testimonies of victims because of not having second or third witnesses to the crimes (which basically would never happen during sexual assaults on young children), certainly do not, in my opinion, in any way constitute even a basic and minimal due diligence in protecting the congregation – the flock – of which elders are supposedly assigned to do by their God-appointed position. That is what is at issue – the policies sanctioned and systematically implemented by a self-serving, arrogant, and corrupt organization.

    The Watchtower couldn’t give a hoot about all those little victims of unwitnessed indecent assaults, . . . BUT, should somebody ever get caught having anything to do with any holiday celebrations or allowing their baby to have a necessary lifesaving blood transfusion, or even just storing their own blood to make it available for an upcoming dangerous surgery – then you’ll see the vicious punitive fangs of the Watchtower organization come out in full fury! Think about it.

  • Storm
    Storm
    The Watchtower policies in dispute are those requiring local bodies of elders to immediately go through the legal department of the Watchtower before any consideration of notifying the proper authorities, as required by law, and which seek to protect the image of the Watchtower organization at all costs, even if it means covering up repeated and scandalous actions toward the vulnerable and the very young by deliberately failing to inform and warn others in congregations within the Jehovah’s Witness community.
    What evidence do you have of anything like this, that the legal department instructs the elders to break secular law? According to official documentation, it’s conversely the opposite.

    October 1, 2012 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS Re: Child abuse; “Most states have child-abuse reporting laws that, depending on the facts, mandate elders to report an accusation to the authorities. Thus, when elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, two elders from their congregation should immediately call the Legal Department for legal advice. If the individuals involved are in different congregations, each body of elders should arrange for two of their elders to call the Legal Department.”

    If the Feds had any real reason to believe the Watchtower society's legal department is instructing the elders to break the law, they’d investigate. I remember an Oklahoma district attorney once made some preconceived accusations, but nothing in the way of evidence ever materialized. I have yet to hear of an elder charged with breaking a mandatory reporting law, albeit there have been several reports of school and church officials being charged and/or convicted for the crime of not-reporting. I'm not necessarily defending anyone's decision in failing to report simply because they weren't compelled by law, I'm just dispelling rumors about the Watchtower Society's legal department.

    http://www.nhcadsv.org/faith_based_sexassault.cfm

    "Two out of every three Americans are affiliated with a religious, spiritual, or faith-based group or organization, and approximately one out of every four Americans is an active member of such a community. Therefore it is not surprising that many victims of sexual assault turn to religious leaders for guidance in dealing with violence."

    I will say that police involvement and other legal entanglement with crimes punishable law in large communities is generally not what church volunteers sign up for, that they should get hammered for their response especially when more times than not, the people telling them things are adults.

    No profit or non-profit organization has a system or policy of warning their members outside of what's instituted by the federal government. Some churches have a registered sex-offender policy, but nothing outside this channel.

    http://www.hamiltonchurch.com/PDFs/HCC%20Sex%20Offenders%20Policy.pdf

    "Policy for individuals on a state Sex Offenders Registry attending Hamilton Community Church.

    It is the policy of Hamilton Community Church that individuals on a state Sex Offenders Registry (SOR) are welcomed to become a member and worship at Hamilton Community Church."

    Elder bodies forwarding outstanding recommendations as introductory reports to other congregations on behalf of dangerous and habitual pedophile sexual predators, while they refuse to even acknowledge the testimonies of victims because of not having second or third witnesses to the crimes (which basically would never happen during sexual assaults on young children), certainly do not, in my opinion, in any way constitute even a basic and minimal due diligence in protecting the congregation – the flock – of which elders are supposedly assigned to do by their God-appointed position. That is what is at issue – the policies sanctioned and systematically implemented by a self-serving, arrogant, and corrupt organization.
    The requirement for two-witnesses is not a policy instituted by the Watchtower society. In fact, it's not even just a “Bible-rule,” it's common law.

    http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01750.htm

    "The "two witness" rule, derived from common law, governs the proof required for a perjury conviction under Section 1621. Weiler v. United States, 323 U.S. 606, 609 (1945). The rule means that a perjury conviction may not rest solely on the uncorroborated testimony of one witness.”

    There may be times when a crime goes unsolved, even a murder because of a lack of corroborating evidence. This doesn't change the fact that matters have to be corroborated as the legal premise of any functional society.

    Read the case files. There are others things that will surface as a motivating factor for lawsuit. Nothing "policy" related has validity when compared with the rest of society.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit