Long term effects of Armageddon images

by Lady Lee 53 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Steve

    Read what others are posting. They were traumatized. What else is there to say.

    You have down-played the potential of spoken words to traumatize children, and thus side-stepped the vexed topic of the inspiration for the Paradise book; namely the brutal prophetic stories in the Hebrew Scriptures. You would be familiar with other fundamentalist religions - and some more mainstream ones too - that read out loud entire sections of the Bible - especially as warnings for all to hear. Funny that you don't comment about these sources of potential trauma on young listeners.

    But I'm not talking about other religions. I'm talking specifically about the effect that WTS images of Armageddon had on young minds. Its a pretty specific question. I 100% agree that the accounts of destruction in the Old Testament were barbaric. While the WTS did publish images of these accounts they happened to otherpeople.

    That other people part is very important. As humans we seem to have this inate ability to think bad things won't happen to me; the teen who thinks they won't get pregnant from unprotected sex - or get sick; I won't get cancer if I smoke; if I cycle or rollerblade without safety gear I won't get hurt when I fall. It happens to other people. not me. We all do it.

    In terms of the effects of pictures and images on young children, you will be aware of the viciousness of many children's "fairy" stories handed down over the generations - and the story books that show (for example) Red Riding Hood being eaten alive. I must disclose that, while the paradise book never traumatized me, I became very anxious after listening to Jack and the Beanstalk on the radio. I'm lucky I suppose, because my JW mother was a very emotionally-attuned woman who would often spend lots of time talking to her children about their fears and anxieties and offer lots of reassurance.

    When I visit my grandchildren I always sit and read stories to them. They choose the books. I read the stories. The last time I was there the favorite book was "Good Families don't. . . fart" by Munsch. It is scary and funny and they love it. But another favorite right now is the Three Little Pigs where the big bed wolf wants to eat the three little pigs. They love it. I can read the book without looking now because they weant to go over it again and again. (By the way Little Red Riding Hood doesn't get eaten in most of the stories I had seen. She gets saved before being eaten. Although I have read one version where she does get eaten but the axman chops her out of the wolf - I would never read that to them. Social researchers know that these affirm a just world view in children. They want to know that bad people/wolves/witches/etc get punished. Little children/pigs/princesses/etc. get saved. But they also know these stories aren't real. Wolves don't really talk. They can't blow houses down. It would hurt a lot of someone used your hair to climb up a tower (Rapunzel) It is fantasy. No treal and they ask for reassuarnces that these things are not real. BTW I never read these stories to my children. And they didn't watch cartoons. Their only exposure to violence came from the WT publications.

    I'm glad you had a caring mother that reassured you when you were scared. Many kids didn't get that. Almost all kids raised in a JW home were told that those pictures in the books and magazines would really happen to bad people including them if they didn't listen. Is it any wonder so many find it hard to leave or follow rules like the blood ban thinking God will destroy them at Armageddon if they accept blood

    My point is straightforward: if you suggest the JW pictures traumatize children, then to be fair, if you really care about children, you will acknowledge that there is a lot of stuff "out there" in life that can potentailly traumatize them - some of it uncomfortably closer to home such as the Bible itself. Ouch!

    Good luck in making it seem that JW literature is unique in traumatizing children. I would have more tolerance for your allegations, if you acknowledged other more widespread sources of "literary" trauma.

    I have no problem acknowledging that. But perhaps you should acknowledge that young children growing up in JW hoimes have little access to many of those images which is what this thread is really about. The images that children are told will happen soon to them if they aren't obedient

  • StAnn
    StAnn

    Oh, yes, I am definitely a hoarder. But my dad is a hoarder, so I think I got it from him.

    When he was a child, his house burned down and he had to go live in an orphanage. I think that insecurity is where his hoarding comes from.

    I had a period where I was taking care of my JW mother (I was DF'd at the time). Once she got well enough to get around on her own, my JW siblings told her that I should leave the house because she didn't need me any more. So she got out of my brother's car and told me right there in the garage that I needed to go, right then and there.

    I did. I put my name on a waiting list to get an apartment and was homeless, lived in an abandoned gas station for awhile until an apartment opened up. And I've had much more trouble with hoarding since then.

    My point is that it appears in my family that hoarding is caused by feeling insecure. Looking at pictures from an early age of God killing people left and right could certainly lead to feelings of insecurity, at least they did with me.

    St. Ann

  • VM44
    VM44

    Don't forget children were being told that soon persecution would break out and that "they would be taken directly to concentration camps and forced to work in the fields all day with little food to eat."

    THAT being said more than once left a strong impression on the minds of young people!

    I think the Witnesses actually enjoyed saying things like that.

  • dinah
    dinah
    Paradise didn't mean much to me. I was never going to make it as I wasn't good enough.
    My fate was to join the girl, the dog and the bicycle, in the hole.

    Same here. If you were blessed enough to be born into this god-forsaken religion, you saw those images practically from birth. Always a furious God taking out his righteous wrath on disobedient people (including children and little doggies). The illustrations were horribly graphic. The main thing I can remember is the stark terror in everyone's eyes in the illustrations.

    I can remember a teacher expressing concern that I had an anxiety disorder when I was in the third grade. Mom's reaction? The teacher just hated the witnesses.

  • civicsi00
    civicsi00

    I grew up with the images in the "you can live forever on a paradise earth" book. But there was one book that really terrified me, and I'm not even sure what it's called right now (it's an old one). I think it had images of hell of some sort. I'm gonna have to research it, come to think of it...

    This affected me a lot, because I feared dying at Armageddon. I thought for sure my family wasn't going to make it because we weren't very spiritual (active) in the congregation.

    It's definitely very hard to get over, and it could take many years.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    boyzone

    The point is, words can often be forgotten by a child, but pictures stay in their minds for a long long time. And for a sensiive child like him, it takes alot of reassurance before they can overwrite what they've been shown with happier thoughts

    I've read many posts here that say the same thing. Their child needs a lot of reassurance that those things are wrong. Nothing, not one prophesy the WTS has said will happen, has happened. In over 100 years they have been wrong on everything. Children can't imagine 100 years. It is a very long time to them. It might help to let him know that.

    truthsetsonefree

    This is one of those threads that helps me understand myself and why anxieties I felt have disappeared in inverse proportion to my distance from the Witness religion.

    excellent.

    The more I read in the old testament the less I like it.

    blacksheep

    My fate was to join the girl, the dog and the bicycle, in the hole

    And we were told this wasn't a maybe. It was a certainly if we were not good

    still breaking free

    The difference between those images that brought Armageddon to life in the publications and fairy stories was that this was something that my parents assured me was going to happen to US!! We were actually going to live through and witness this and as I never felt I was good enough to be favoured by Jehovah (although, in hindsight I was actually an incredibly good child, but that's another subject) I believed that I would be one of those suffering a very painful death while my friends and family would be looked after and protected.

    If that isn't going to screw your mind up, then I don't know what is!!

    Your point is excellent and one way to see it that I had not considered. But as you see I have used it well. Thank you

    Carla

    but my mom had the paper out at breakfast and there was a pic of a guy in protest on fire!! Anybody remember that? must be a famous picture, he was sitting indian style. All these years later I can recall that picture and do not remember any other details of the moment or printed word.

    A perfect example of how one picture can be worth more than 1000 words.

    I beleive that along with all the verbage in the wt's and the images combined can certainly damage one's psyche. Years later one may not believe anything jw and know it is all bs yet one may not realize that the images of gloom and doom remain in the unconsious mind to nag and harrass you when you least expect it.

    exactly the info my friend needs. Thanks

    truthlover

    I too wonder how much damage I did to my children by raising them in a JW home. They got out when they were 14 and 10 but I still believed it all for another 10 years. So I wasn't able to do a lot of damage control while they were growing up.

    At least now I can tell them how wrong it was to impose those beliefs on them.

  • truthlover
    truthlover

    LL:

    I have talked numerous times with our son on this subject and feel so guilty that this is my fault that he is in such a state.. but he "counsels" me that he has to get thru this and he does, most of the time now, but is still under a MD's guidance and he is looking to naturopaths, etc. to help him to understand why his body is doing what it is doing -- - he is working around it to some degree, but it always, always comes up somehow in our conversations which are on a regular basis.. I truly believe his next stop is the phsychiatrists couch...over the years he has become an ardent reader, still believes that God is good and that Jesus is the only way, and there are good people in the truth, just doesnt want anything to do with it. Cant blame him there, we all have to stand before the judgement seat and God will be the final judge of all our heart conditions..

    Good your children arent manifesting any recurrent illnesses because of the "indoctrination"

  • steve2
    steve2

    I would never trivialize the trauma people have experienced from being exposed to upsetting images - so I do apologise if my responses have been construed as unempathic. Yes, I concede that you are referring to images. In the recent past, graphic apocalyptic imagery was far more widespread, in religions such as the Catholic church and the American-based "churches" of Christ, fopr example. I react when I see the focus solely on the JW literature from 40 - 50 years ago. The heyday of the Paradise book was the late 50s. I also have relatively "happy" memories of my mother reading stories to us from the book. She was a gem of a woman and used to carefully explain that "Jehovah loves you" etc., so my siblings and I - none of whom remained in the religion - were not traumatized. Also, there has been a shift in the kinds of images in current JW literature: It is not as graphic as at was in earlier decades and there seems to be a higher proportion of positive images.

    In studies on trauma, attention is often drawn to what is called "vulnerability" factors when people develop traumatic-type disorders: For example, how supportive the home environment is. To the best of my knowledge, in my local community, none of my JW peers from the 50s and 60s were traumatized by exposure to images in the JW literature. On the other hand, other aspects of the JW environment were traumatizing for many: Shunning, spoken warnings about the consequences of "sins of the flesh", etc. On reflection, none of this kind of negative baggage was unique to the JWs -which is not to say that it was Okay!

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    How important is Armageddon? Not really in the grand scheme. It is only mentioned once by name in the whole bible Revelation 16:16

    It is a big battle Revelation 9:16 but not the "end of the world" or even the wicked, that comes later after the millennial reign of Christ Revelation 20

    So the WT teaching here is a red herring. Strange how JWs teach that a loving God would not send people to hell but He would destroy them all at Armageddon! Double standards.

    On that subject

    Matthew 10:28 (New International Version)

    28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

    Fear is not a thing to worry about in the Kingdom Of God.

    Matthew 6:34 (New International Version)

    34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

    Hebrews 2:14-15 (New International Version)

    14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

    All the best,

    Stephen

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    StAnn

    You are so right that life is full of things that cause us deep pain. When in that pain we need to look at all the possibilities. We can't blame everything on the WTS. I know in my case there was plenty of trauma before the WTS. And they certainly didn't go away because we were now JWs. Thanks

    VM44

    I got out of foster care and went back to live with my mother and the JWs when I was 16. And it was 1968 and WT literature was filled with doom and gloom of persecution pre-Armageddon, concentration camps, running for the hills, the need to "stay close" to the WTS. I was 16 and they had a tremendous impact on me. Scared. I think many of us were just plain scared.

    dinah

    I can remember a teacher expressing concern that I had an anxiety disorder when I was in the third grade. Mom's reaction? The teacher just hated the witnesses.

    and I bet she did nothing

    civicsi00 Yes it takes time and work. But very often the first step is recognizing the problem and reminding ourselves that none of it was real

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