The Issue of Christ as Mediator

by passwordprotected 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  passwordprotected

  I think I've hit on why the WTS love to downplay Christ's role as mediator. It's not just so that they can have their two classes of Christians. They have to downplay this aspect of Christ because it throws up the issue of his divinity.

  Who is Christ mediating for?

  Two parties; men and God. Therefore two parties need to have representation. And they do have representation; Jesus Christ. There isn't mediation from both sides, a mediator for men and a mediator for God. It's all taken care of by one mediator, Christ.

  How could the mediation process work if Christ wasn't fully man and fully God?

  Because Christ was fully man and fully God he alone is qualified to represent both parties fully and to mediate for them, creating peace. How could someone who was just a man mediate for God? And how could an angel mediate for God? How could Jesus mediate for man if he wasn't fully a man?

  No wonder JWs hardly ever talk about Christ as their mediator. He not only isn't their mediator but according to their theology it's impossible for him to be any sort of successful mediator between God and men.
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  yadda yadda 2

  Your post makes sense up until the non sequitur:"How could the mediation process work if Christ wasn't fully man and fully God?"

  Why must Jesus be fully God and fully man to be a mediator between the two? This makes about as much sense as saying a mediator (like a judge) in a legal dispute between a husband and wife must be "fully husband" and "fully wife" in order to mediate between them. There is nothing about being a mediator between two parties that intrinsically demands that mediator be "fully" one party or the other.
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  cameo-d

  Isn't "mediator" a JW word?

  I have heard most christians call Jesus an "Intecessor".

  Do you think there is a difference?
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  quietlyleaving

  Passwordprotected, I so agree with the part where you suggest that JWs are against Jesus' mediatoring and against Jesus being a way.
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  passwordprotected

  @ yadda - we're not talking a mediator between two humans, we're talking about a mediator between humans and the One who created them.
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  Colton

  I had this discussion on YouTube and this is the response I received:

  the WT that says Jesus is the mediator for all mankind. "(Hebrews 6:19, 20; 7:3) So the cessation of Jesus office as? a mediating High Priest toward mankind does not end his life. " It's the November 15, 1995 WT page 19 and paragraph 18.

  I have no idea what this means.
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  passwordprotected

  @ colton - that makes absolutely no sense in the English language.

  Also, it directly contradicts the official WTS teaching that Jesus is mediator only for the 144,000.
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  Earnest

  cameo, the difference between mediator and intercessor is that the WTS maintain that Jesus is only mediator of those with whom he makes a covenant for a kingdom i.e. those who will rule with him, whereas he is intercessor for all Christians. Rightly or wrongly their argument is that the word mediator is only used in a legal sense in scripture - mediating a covenant - and that is the only reason it is limited to the "heavenly class".
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  Colton

  Anyone have access to November 15, 1995 WT page 19 and paragraph 18?

  I'd like to see what it says on this subject.
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  quietlyleaving

  here you are colton - nov15, 1995 p.19, paras 12-18

  12 An unintentional manslayer in Israel had to remain in a city of refuge “until the high priest’s death.” (Numbers 35:28) So how long must formerly bloodguilty ones stay in the antitypical refuge city? Until they no longer need the services of the High Priest, Jesus Christ. “He is able also to save completely those who are approaching God through him,” said Paul. (Hebrews 7:25) As long as any taints of sin and former bloodguilt continue, the services of the High Priest are needed so that imperfect humans can have a right standing with God. 13 Remember that the ancient cities of refuge were established for “the sons of Israel,” the alien residents, and the settlers. “The sons of Israel” are spiritual Israelites. (Galatians 6:16) They must stay in the antitypical city of refuge as long as they live on earth. Why? Because they are still in the imperfect flesh and therefore need the atoning merit of their heavenly High Priest. But when these anointed Christians die and are resurrected to spirit life in heaven, they no longer need the High Priest’s atoning services; they will forever have left the flesh and bloodguilt attached to it. Toward such resurrected anointed ones, the High Priest will have died in an atoning, protective capacity. 14 The very possession of human nature requires that those who will be heavenly “joint heirs with Christ” stay in the antitypical refuge city until they faithfully finish their earthly course in death. When they die, they will sacrifice human nature forever. (Romans 8:17; Revelation 2:10) Jesus’ sacrifice applies only to those having human nature. Hence, the High Priest dies toward those of spiritual Israel when they are resurrected as spirit creatures who will reside eternally in heaven as “sharers in divine nature.”—2 Peter 1:4. 15 When will the High Priest “die” with regard to the modern-day ‘alien residents’ and ‘settlers,’ allowing them to leave the antitypical city of refuge? These members of the great crowd cannot come out of this refuge city immediately after the great tribulation. Why not? Because they will still be in their imperfect, sinful flesh and will need to remain under the High Priest’s protection. By availing themselves of his atoning services during his thousand-year kingship and priesthood, they will attain to human perfection. Jesus will then present them to God for a final, eternally decisive test of their integrity by the loosing of Satan and his demons for a little while. Because they pass this test with divine approval, Jehovah will declare them righteous. Thus they will reach the very fullness of human perfection.—1 Corinthians 15:28; Revelation 20:7-10. 16 So, then, survivors of the great tribulation will have to maintain a good conscience by staying in the antitypical refuge city until the end of Christ’s Thousand Year Reign. As perfected humans, they will have no further need for the High Priest’s atoning services and will come out from under his protection. Jesus will then die to them as High Priest, for he will no longer need to act in their behalf with the cleansing blood of his sacrifice. At that time they will leave the antitypical city of refuge. 17 Must those resurrected during Jesus’ Thousand Year Reign enter the antitypical city of refuge and remain there until the death of the high priest? No, because by dying they paid the penalty for their sinfulness. (Romans 6:7; Hebrews 9:27) Nevertheless, the High Priest will help them to reach perfection. If they successfully pass the final test after the Millennium, God will also declare them righteous with a guarantee of eternal life on earth. Of course, failure to comply with God’s requirements will bring condemnatory judgment and destruction upon any humans who do not pass the final test as integrity keepers. 18 Israelite high priests eventually died. But Jesus “has become a high priest according to the manner of Melchizedek forever.” (Hebrews 6:19, 20; 7:3) So the cessation of Jesus’ office as a mediating High Priest toward mankind does not end his life. The good effects of his service as King and High Priest will remain with mankind forever, and humans will be eternally indebted to him for his having served in these capacities. Moreover, throughout eternity Jesus will take the lead in the pure worship of Jehovah.—Philippians 2:5-11.