Jehovah created Jesus? Jesus is "a god" and "mighty god"? Consider these...

by Chalam 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Chalam

  Hi,

  Good to see all the thread on Jesus recently :)

  OK, on with this one...

  Isaiah 43:10-11 (New International Version)

  10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD,
  "and my servant whom I have chosen,
  so that you may know and believe me
  and understand that I am he.
  Before me no god was formed,
  nor will there be one after me.

  11 I, even I, am the LORD,
  and apart from me there is no savior.

  This is quite clearly a poke in the eye for the WT doctrine and JW beliefs. No "mighty god" was formed before God Almighty!

  Isaiah 43:14 (New International Version)

  14 This is what the LORD says—
  your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel

  Yes, Jesus is the saviour (v11), the redeemer, the Holy One.

  15 I am the LORD, your Holy One,
  Israel's Creator, your King."

  Who is Israel's King?

  Matthew 27:11 (New International Version)

  11 Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?"
  "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied.

  So how can Jesus be both "Jehovah" and Himself? Only one explanation.

  John 10:30 (New International Version)

  30 I and the Father are one."

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  TheOldHippie

  ???????? Did'nt quite catch your line of reasoning here, my friend.
• 

  Chalam

  Hi,

  My apologies-will try again!

  The WT teaches that Jesus was a created being, not, eternal, not God, but "a god" and "mighty god".

  This verse rips that false doctrine to shreds.

  10 Before me no god was formed,
  nor will there be one after me

  So does the next verse

  11 I, even I, am the LORD,
  and apart from me there is no savior

  Jesus is that saviour and He is the LORD ("Jehovah" as JWs call Him).

  14 This is what the LORD says—
  your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel

  Yes Jesus is the Redeemer, and the Holy One also as is the LORD (JW "Jehovah")

  15 I am the LORD, your Holy One,
  Israel's Creator, your King.

  Yes, Jesus created everything and is King as is the LORD (JW "Jehovah")

  So how can Jesus be all these things as well as the Father?

  Jesus answers that plainly in the book of John.

  30 I and the Father are one

  So just to recap, the point is that the bible shows that Jesus was not created and that He a the Father are one and the same in many respects i.e. one true God, Creator etc.

  Hope that helps.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Narkissos

  Bottom line: Bible verses can be arranged in different orders so that "the Bible" teaches something different. QED?
• 

  Chalam

  Hi Narkissos,

  IMHO there is one true bible and one true teaching. Neither contradicts each other or themselves, unlike the WT and the NWT.

  That said, coming to faith is not a matter of "working it all out".

  Hebrews 11:1 (New International Version)

  By Faith

  1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. All the best, Stephen
• 

  Aurelius

  The next time a JW tries to use John 1:1 (NWT) to show that Jesus is just simply "a god" (small 'g'), refer them to Isaiah 9:6 and ask them to explain which one of the renderings is correct. If they claim both are correct. Ask them to explain how a "Mighty God" has now become "a god'. Sounds like a demotion to me!

  For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God , Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. (Isaiah 9:6)
• 

  Witness 007

  Poor reasoning my friend! Even Moses was said to be "A god to Pharoah" human judges were called gods....some scriptures you quote are refering to idols as "other gods."
• 

  reniaa

  1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)

  5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
• 

  isaacaustin

  1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)

  5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

  Ok Reniaa...using your reasoning- assuming that this verse is using god as a distinguishing title from lord...if there is only 1 god then there is only one lord.

  matt 11:25

  At that time Jesus said in reply, 14 "I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike.

  Hmm, the father is Lord

  You have already been knocked down on this one one pretty badly and it has been shown clearly that lord and god are used interchangeably here...not as contrasting titles. The worlds has many so called lords and gods...we have one who is Lord and God...3 persons who operate as one flesh.

  you really do like to repeat yourself Reniaa and have that JW short memory where soemthing is proven false and you claim it again as though proven fact.
• 

  lurk3r

  Posting guideline #7 Impersonating or falsely claiming to represent a person or organisation.

  Reniaa, you violate this Posting guidline. You falsely claim to represent your ograization by being here. You have NO DESIRE to be here, for any other reason than to garner attention for YOURSELF. Many people here wish to see you stay hoping you will "come to your senses". I think not, as it is apparent to me that you only wish to disrupt - once again for yourself. DO NOT take this thread and MAKE IT INTO a defense of the Society PLEASE. I'm sick of it, and you remind me of all the reasons I will not return to your "way". Thank you for PERSONALLY reenforcing within myself how misguided we can be.

  I am very sorry Chalam. I did wrong here and apologise for the hijack...but i can't stand her subject changes anymore.

  lurk3r